Industry Reponses to Mall Attacks - Page 2

Industry Reponses to Mall Attacks

This is a discussion on Industry Reponses to Mall Attacks within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's be a little realistic for a moment...... Malls are just one OF MANY soft targets. There are a bunch of targets we go to ...

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Thread: Industry Reponses to Mall Attacks

  1. #16
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    Let's be a little realistic for a moment......

    Malls are just one OF MANY soft targets. There are a bunch of targets we go to every day, from hospitals, restaurants, malls, office buildings, stores, churches....even Wal-Mart!

    There is no way to 'harden' all of these. We can't afford to have armed security at all of these venues....nor do we want to.....Ever heard of 'Police State'?

    Regarding malls, most have minimal security. The ones around here have a few minimum wage security guards who AREN'T ARMED. They don't serve to make me feel any safer & they don't make an effective deterrent to a BG.

    So what can places like malls do, to increase their security? Feel feel to answer....I'd like to hear some EFFECTIVE measures.

    Adding cameras may deter some shop lifters, but someone like this miscreant in Omaha aren't going to be deterred by cameras....He wanted to be famous!

    Even if someone had been armed at that mall....Would they have wanted to go up against a BG with an AK...armed with a handgun? (It makes me want to start carrying a rifle for protection...in that situation, I'd feel a little out-gunned.)

    Criminals of this type will go to where they can do the most harm....that's why they don't routinely go to police stations to open fire.

    So where does that leave us?........

    The mall owners will just put up more cameras (so CNN has pictures to show of the aftermath). They will probably put up more NO GUNS signs...(like that worked so well in Omaha...)....Maybe some will hire armed security......

    The anti-gunners will spout more of their 'assault weapon' hoplophobia. They will demand more gun control ON THE VICTIMS, while ignorong the BGs.

    The pro-gunners will just keep plugging away....trying to halt the never ending attacks by the antis & the BGs.

    The only thing I think that will make a difference is when we make it cost the BGs more than they are willing to pay.....Therein lies the rub....How do you make a BG pay when he is willing to die?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    Let's be a little realistic for a moment......

    ...The only thing I think that will make a difference is when we make it cost the BGs more than they are willing to pay.....Therein lies the rub....How do you make a BG pay when he is willing to die?
    Mmmmmm...make him pay the 'heavy' full price, and as early as possible!

    Other than that, I agree, it's a tough one at best!

    Stay armed...stay safe!
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Highest cost, early in the engagement. About the only way to do that is with an extremely high percentage of people carrying effective weapons and effectively deploying them. Even with that, there will be exploited situations by criminals. The ones that are left will either ply other avenues or harden their tactics to accommodate.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Even with that, there will be exploited situations by criminals. The ones that are left will either ply other avenues or harden their tactics to accommodate.
    Yes. IIRC, John Lott did a study in the nineties looking at Israel's experience with encouraging the arming of their citizenry in response to terrorist attacks. The terrorists did indeed switch their tactics, from shootings to bombings, but I believe the relative loss of life was lessened.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    ..."Law enforcement and security prevention measures, no matter how good, cannot forestall a tragedy such as this from happening,"[/I][/B] they seemed to understand and weren't trying to give the sheep the usual false sense of security. Now people need to translate this into, "you need to take measures for your own self-defense". IMHO those measures include a good situational awareness and avoidance technique class and the carrying of a firearm.
    Well said!
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderdude View Post
    They need cameras with like computer controlled precision guns attached to them or something, with a security guard at the controls at ALL times
    Have you seen "Idiocracy?" It's a great movie with a prime example.

  7. #22
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    At work we just got a DOJ (Department of Justice) bulletin regarding the mall shooting, and LE response to such incidents. Nothing too terribly imaginative just that we need to be aware that these types of incidents are more prone to happen around the holidays and we should monitor large shopping centers. Here in WI we don't even have CCW so I can't imagine that anyone (unless there was an off-duty present) would have been in a position to do anything about this. Also most security especially in malls is unarmed, guess they don't want to scare the customers are some other such silliness...
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    Let's be a little realistic for a moment......

    Malls are just one OF MANY soft targets. There are a bunch of targets we go to every day, from hospitals, restaurants, malls, office buildings, stores, churches....even Wal-Mart!

    There is no way to 'harden' all of these. We can't afford to have armed security at all of these venues....nor do we want to.....Ever heard of 'Police State'?

    So what can places like malls do, to increase their security? Feel feel to answer....I'd like to hear some EFFECTIVE measures.
    My answer? NOTHING.

    There is really NOTHING that they can do to increase the security of those places.

    Really, I have to ask, who said that there had to be something that could be done that would be "effective"? You pointed out that you simply cannot harden all the possible targets. And if you harden some, all you'll do is drive the attacks to happen at the ones you haven't hardened! What have you saved? Nothing.


    Even if someone had been armed at that mall....Would they have wanted to go up against a BG with an AK...armed with a handgun? (It makes me want to start carrying a rifle for protection...in that situation, I'd feel a little out-gunned.)
    The kid was wearing a tee shirt and a sweatshirt, not body armor.

    And probably the last thing on his mind was that someone armed was going to oppose him.

    And if I was going to oppose him, you can bet I would not just walk right on up to him, face to face! So you can doubt all you want that some armed CCWer would do what was needed, but that doesn't mean that one of us wouldn't, say, hide around a corner, or behind a trash can, etc. and wait for him to pass by, and AMBUSH him with a mag full of .40!

    The mall owners will just put up more cameras (so CNN has pictures to show of the aftermath). They will probably put up more NO GUNS signs...(like that worked so well in Omaha...)....Maybe some will hire armed security......

    The anti-gunners will spout more of their 'assault weapon' hoplophobia. They will demand more gun control ON THE VICTIMS, while ignorong the BGs.

    The pro-gunners will just keep plugging away....trying to halt the never ending attacks by the antis & the BGs.
    As Kurt Vonnegut Jr. was fond of saying, "So it goes..."

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by althemean View Post
    Have you seen "Idiocracy?" It's a great movie with a prime example.
    I got it from the local library.

    That movie, while it is a comedy, is as SCARY to watch as "1984" is to read.

    "Idiocracy" is not so much a comedy spoof as it is a DOCUMENTARY on what is actually happening to society!

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Insted of getting a dog, how about hiring an illegal to run all our errands for us..unarmed of course..that way we can all stay home and remain armed. Anymore, the laws and "rules" are making it harder to protect oneself while out and about. You just want to throw your hands up and SCREAM!

  11. #26
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    Even if we did succeed in "hardening" all these buildings, then the shootings are just going to happen in the parking lots and crowded street malls at the intersections where the herds are waiting to cross the street.

    The sheep and the antis are just not going to grasp it until they have exhausted every possible avenue of prevention.

    Gun towers at every other intersection with armed security, gun towers in the malls, no gun zones with assault rifle armed security and dogs patrolling (sounds like the Metro in Europe), stop all LEO traffic enforcement and get them out of their cars walking the streets in the crowded areas....Oh wait, that is the police state mentioned above.

    Maybe we ought to try complete civil and criminal immunity for all CC holders when they act in the defense of themselves and others - effectively making them automatic deputies if something happens providing they act within the states CC laws?

    Yes, you would be breaking the law by entering a posted NO GUN building right up to the point that something happens. If it is concealed, and nothing happens, who's going to know you were carrying?

  12. #27
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    Here's my response: I'm going to the mall this afternoon for some event that my daughter is participating in... I'll be taking everything I've got.

    Mentioned the mall shooting to my wife, and she starts off about how the mall we're going to is a "nice" mall, implying nothing bad could happen there. Yeh, right. She's condition white, but I'm working on her.

    No thanks, mall unarmed "security", I'll handle my own security.

    Okay, time to load more mags.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Maybe we ought to try complete civil and criminal immunity for all CC holders when they act in the defense of themselves and others
    I like this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Yes, you would be breaking the law by entering a posted NO GUN building right up to the point that something happens. If it is concealed, and nothing happens, who's going to know you were carrying?
    Exactly.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    ... then the shootings are just going to happen in the parking lots and crowded street malls at the intersections where the herds are waiting to cross the street.
    Picture this ... Manhattan, NYC, during the morning rush hour. Imagine a $150 AK and a dozen 40rd magazines. Hundreds of people stream by every minute, going to their jobs. A little bit of desire, a little lack of concern, and there it is. Doesn't take a genius to predict the impacts. With the attention some fools seek, why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me.

    Oops. I forgot! Guns are prohibited in NYC, right? The signs say so. Can't happen, then. Whew! I feel so much better.
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    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  15. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Maybe we ought to try complete civil and criminal immunity for all CC holders when they act in the defense of themselves and others - effectively making them automatic deputies if something happens providing they act within the states CC laws?
    Not sure we'd want all the things that would come with that, in the long run, but then again it can't be any worse than now, with the patchwork assemblage of crappy laws that force good sams and honorable people to be hamstrung at the least, or villified, criminalized and financially ruined at the worst.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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