Restriction of Concealed Carry in Public Places

[Average Joe]

I’m not one to join forums. But, I feel the need to speak my mind on this issue. So, I’m joining a few forums to try to speak out. It really bothers me that there isn’t more public awareness and media reporting about the reasons to allow Concealed Carry in public places by us law-abiding citizens that have met the requirements.

Malls (Utah & now Nebraska – others?), schools (way too many – Columbine, VA Tech, seems endless – even in the Amish community), workplace (also way too many), restaurants (Luby’s - Killeen, TX 1991 & McDonald’s – San Ysidro, CA 1984 – to name a couple notorious ones), churches (Fort Worth, TX 1999, Brookfield, WI 2005- others?).

I just read an article on CNN.com about Malls debating how to protect shoppers. At least a couple of “experts” are quoted on their “thoughts”. You can see the article here: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mal...nnSTCText?iref

I have a very simple and very cost effective suggestion for these mall owners/managers and security “experts”. ALLOW LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH PERMITS THE OPTION OF CONCEALED CARRY! In fact, they should even encourage it. It wouldn’t cost them a penny. Their sales might actually increase. Oh, they might lose some sales because the “bad guys” might not want to shop there if they aren’t the only ones carrying.

But, of course they would never actually encourage it because of their fear that there might be “an incident” and some lawsuit happy idiot would blame the mall for encouraging us gun wielding “cowboys” to strap on our iron and ride into to town to get supplies for the ranch.

As soon as I state the following someone is probably going to come along with examples to prove me wrong. But, I have never heard of anyone going to a police station or military facility (in the U.S.), gun store, gun show, shooting range, etc. intending to do anything like the examples above. Gun shows I’ve been to have hundreds of guns with thousands of rounds of ammunition out in the open with only a small number of people over seeing it all. Sure, the guns better be locked in some way. But, think about it, hundreds of people carrying around guns they have brought with them or bought while there; with all that ammo within easy reach. [There’s got to be less obvious examples of such places that I’m just not thing of.]

Gee, I wonder if the possibility of others being armed at such places might be a deterrent - ???

I would like to think that maybe even only one person that makes such decisions might get this message and realize law abiding citizens should not be restricted to carry.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[fsufanaz]

I think I agree with pretty much everything you said. I have heard similar sentiments before on this forum but it is always good to here them again. I just wish more was statements like this were heard on the MSM.

Ed

[Redneck Repairs]

Nice first post here Joe , its also spam talking points . If your a bot you will be deleted , and if your a real person well we will talk lol .

[the_fallguy]

It's funny how people feel safer pretending there is not a threat until it is too late, than preparing themselves to react in the event of a threat.

Not to hijack the thread (which I pretty much agree with), but it brought up an interesting question to my mind. If someone could possibly sue the mall for allowing a ccw customer to react, does that mean an injured patron or the family member of a deceased patron could sue for dis-allowing concealed carry as a means they had to protect themselves?

[digitalexplr]

It's funny how people feel safer pretending there is not a threat until it is too late, than preparing themselves to react in the event of a threat.

Not to hijack the thread (which I pretty much agree with), but it brought up an interesting question to my mind. If someone could possibly sue the mall for allowing a ccw customer to react, does that mean an injured patron or the family member of a deceased patron could sue for dis-allowing concealed carry as a means they had to protect themselves?

I don't know the answer, but I do know I would certainly try suing for denial of my right to defend myself and or family.

[Average Joe]

I've already instructed my wife to do exactly that (at least get a decent lawyer and attempt to) if I was ever a victim in such a scenario.

[gddyup]

Welcome Average Joe!

I share all your sentiments. I myself went to a gun show about 2 months ago to buy my new Patriot safe and you know what? With those thousands of guns there that day I walked out of there with the same number of holes in my body that I went in with.

Strange how those "evil" guns didnt just jump right off the table and blow me away....

[Average Joe]

Please excuse my ignorance and help me here. What do you mean by "its also spam talking points". I know what e-mail/internet spam is, but I don't understand the comment.

[kf4uel]

Please excuse my ignorance and help me here. What do you mean by "its also spam talking points". I know what e-mail/internet spam is, but I don't understand the comment.

Your post was so well scripted and laid out that we thought u were a machine! lol welcome aboard

[Sticks]

I just posted this in the Industry Response to Shooting thread

Maybe we ought to try complete civil and criminal immunity for all CC holders when they act in the defense of themselves and others - effectively making them automatic deputies if something happens providing they act within the states CC laws?

Yes, you would be breaking the law by entering a posted NO GUN building right up to the point that something happens. If it is concealed, and nothing happens, who's going to know you were carrying?

[Creature]

Average Joe wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance and help me here. What do you mean by "its also spam talking points". I know what e-mail/internet spam is, but I don't understand the comment.

That kind of confused me too. What gives, Redneck...is that how we welcome new members now? Especially a timely and on-point first OP?

[BluesStringer]

Maybe a LEO or two can chime in on this question, but would a CWP holder be doing anything *illegal* by ignoring "Gun Free Zone" signs on private property? I realize that a mall or any kind of business can make a demand that you leave the premises if you were "made," and that if you refused you would then be subject to trespassing prosecution, but really, the act of carrying on private property where such a sign is posted isn't in and of itself illegal, is it?

[ccw9mm]

I have a very simple and very cost effective suggestion for these mall owners/managers and security “experts”. ALLOW LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH PERMITS THE OPTION OF CONCEALED CARRY!

Three step program:

• Eliminate restricted zones, by law, for citizens who are not engaging in criminal actions. This includes federal (public) facilities, courthouses, polling places, schools and anywhere else that really doesn't make sense to disallow citizens the ability to defend themselves.
• Castle Doctrine shield against civil lawsuits.
• Requirement for prosecution to prove guilt (ie, the classical presumption of innocence we all mistakenly believe is the case).

This could go a long, long way to reversing the insanity of hand-wringing most "authorities" seem to prefer.

[retsupt99]

Three step program:

• Eliminate restricted zones, by law, for citizens who are not engaging in criminal actions. This includes federal (public) facilities, courthouses, polling places, schools and anywhere else that really doesn't make sense to disallow citizens the ability to defend themselves.
• Castle Doctrine shield against civil lawsuits.
• Requirement for prosecution to prove guilt (ie, the classical presumption of innocence we all mistakenly believe is the case).

This could go a long, long way to reversing the insanity of hand-wringing most "authorities" seem to prefer.

EXACTLY...

[P7fanatic]

I don't know the answer, but I do know I would certainly try suing for denial of my right to defend myself and or family.

Their response would be that you were not required or forced to be there.

What would go far in driving the cause for more acceptance of concealed carry would be the reporting by the media of more incidents where crime and BG's were stopped by law abiding concealed weapon carriers.
Sadly though, this is not in the main medias agenda as we all know generally they want more gun control.