using weapon to avoid great bodily harm

using weapon to avoid great bodily harm

This is a discussion on using weapon to avoid great bodily harm within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; question i have is defending onesself against a great bodily harm threat.back in 2005 i had two back surgeries andone more this dec.17,07.(spinal fusion) i ...

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Thread: using weapon to avoid great bodily harm

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    using weapon to avoid great bodily harm

    question i have is defending onesself against a great bodily harm threat.back in 2005 i had two back surgeries andone more this
    dec.17,07.(spinal fusion) i suppose some form of spray would
    be first line of defence. now theres only three times i like to draw
    my weapon 1)at the range 2)hunting and 3)cleaning and storage.
    now if bg is armed hopefully end the threat but lets say bg is unarm,
    guestion i have would be considering my condtion, instead of being
    beat to a plulp.would drawing and firing at bg be justifiable or trouble.
    (maybe better to ask attorney) also any fellow members that would
    be in the same boat with any suggestions/input???
    thanks in advance for any ideas/comments.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    In most states you may use deadly force to protect yourself or another from death or serious physical injury. If the BG puts you in fear of either of these outcomes, then you are justified in doing what you feel is necessary to preserve your life and health.

    IMHO.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    I don't think there is an absolute answer to your question. Whatever the Michigan law is, a self-defense shooting can wind up in court where a jury can always go either way.

    I did read a column (Detroit Free Press 2007 Nov 25) by the Michigan Attorney General in which he wrote that in his 14 years as the lead prosecutor in the Wayne County Homicide Unit, a CCW permit holder was never charged with murder.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    After my neck\vertebrate surgery the neurosurgeon was giving me my restrictions; No rodeo riding, no golf, no more martial arts sparing etc etc...
    I asked him - what if someone wanted to fight - a real fight, not sparing and he would not back down? His answer was "Shoot him."
    Not necessarily a legal argument but a good alternative to being paralyzed I think.
    For God, Family and Country!

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    After my neck\vertebrate surgery the neurosurgeon was giving me my restrictions; No rodeo riding, no golf, no more martial arts sparing etc etc...
    I asked him - what if someone wanted to fight - a real fight, not sparing and he would not back down? His answer was "Shoot him."
    Not necessarily a legal argument but a good alternative to being paralyzed I think.
    i like your doctors answer,dont think the d.a. would see it that way.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

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  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    With your medical condition, you would definitely have the sympathy of whoever was deciding your fate. Whether it be a judge, jury, police, or the media. You also get a lot more leeway than someone considered more healthy than you. The headline would read:

    "Handicapped man shoots attacker"

    Which garners the same response as:

    "80 year old grandmother shoots attacker"

    Now I'm not saying you're the equivalent of an 80 year old grandmother, but you would get media attention to the same degree. We all love those stories of supposedly defenseless people defending themselves. A prosecutor would have a lot of trouble with that one.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post
    ... would drawing and firing at bg be justifiable or trouble.
    Drawing and firing is always "trouble." You'll hopefully come out of it alive ... but, at what cost? Decide now, 'cause waiting to figure all this out at the time of being attacked is far too late.

    You need to think through your state's laws and decide how that might affect the conditions under which you'll decide to defend yourself with lethal force.

    As a place to start, I'd suggest reading up on the principle of the Deadly Force Triangle: Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. Then, speak with a qualified attorney about your actual legal options in Michigan.

    That being said, I am in the same boat. I have nerve damage in my hip/leg, which gets in the way of my walking far or strenuously. It's extremely painful to get around, at times. I would be hard pressed to offer up a vigorous H2H defense for very long, against anyone younger and stronger than I. So, I have thought through the relevant questions, insofar as my ability to defend against physical attack is concerned. Disparity of force principles apply, always.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; December 9th, 2007 at 03:06 PM. Reason: clarification
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  8. #8
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    One of the deciding factors in every use of force continum I've ever seen allows for physical limitations/differences of the people involved.

    For example; If its apparent that I'm going to attack a person such as yourself, (I'm 5'11" 195# in excellent shape) I think it would be plenty reasonable for you to raise the bar and defend yourself. Reverse the roles, and I would be expected to be able to fight you off or run away without using deadly force.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    I am shoving the heck out of 70 and have had a series of heart attacks to boot. Cant walk to the corner and back without stopping for breath a couple of times.I am not a threat to anyone.

    What do you suppose would happen to a BG that made an attempt to fight me????

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array mocarryguy's Avatar
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    Your first line of defense here is your medical records, which clearly show your physical limitations. I too have undergone back surgery, and I have those records in my possession, along with the Dr., date, time, etc.
    I do still workout, martial arts, lift weights and cardio daily, but, I pay for it as well.
    I feel for you my friend, but in your case, if I were on a jury, you would have the justification you needed. But, I am just Joe Blow nobody, so of course take my opinion with a grain of salt..Luck.
    I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    if you feel that your life is in danger, at least in most states, you have every right to protect yourself. as simple as that.

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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecup View Post
    I am shoving the heck out of 70 and have had a series of heart attacks to boot. Cant walk to the corner and back without stopping for breath a couple of times.I am not a threat to anyone.

    What do you suppose would happen to a BG that made an attempt to fight me????
    not looking for a boo woo here, just fellow members thoughts
    and any input. by the way, what exactly would you do.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Talk to a Michigan Attorney. You have to believe that your life is in danger is a big one. Under the rules that I follow at work, a fist swinging at the head is deadly force, and a deadly force reponse is authorized. I will follow the same rule in my day to day activities. Spend a few dollars to talk to your Attorney.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    Talk to a Michigan Attorney. You have to believe that your life is in danger is a big one. Under the rules that I follow at work, a fist swinging at the head is deadly force, and a deadly force reponse is authorized. I will follow the same rule in my day to day activities. Spend a few dollars to talk to your Attorney.
    yeah, that sounds like the best plan. after all thats what we pay
    em for.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    well i like to thank everyone for youre input,ideas,andsuggestions. its been a
    big help and a good place to start.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

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