You can lead a horse to water...but they will not understand why.
This is a discussion on You can lead a horse to water...but they will not understand why. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by morintp
I think Jethro Tull said it best. "I may make you feel, but I can't make you think."
TNX! Time for ...
December 11th, 2007 08:49 AM
TNX! Time for Thick as Brick with a 1911 in me lap..brb
Originally Posted by morintp
December 11th, 2007 10:11 AM
Unfortunately the rational comments of the few are but mere whispers in a hurricane. We can give every logical reason why carry is not only justified but also a necessity and all of that will be drowned out by the media. The truth is that fewer and fewer people still have the luxury/curse of thinking that it cannot happen to me.
Schools, Universities, Malls, Churches, people's front yards.... all within the last few months. In the wake of those tragedies that hit close to home you would think that people would wake up. The truth is that "our" world doesn't want us to wake up.
Big businesses like people in "la la land". People that fear for their lives on a daily bases tend to focus their resources on provisions and protection. People that have no fear can splurge and spend on the frivolous and entertainment.
Obviously the BG wants his victims to be sleeping in a false sense of security. What benefit is it of his to rattle the cage and wake up the guard dog?
The best we can do is to educate when asked and hope the "odds" return to our favor. In the mean time live, protect, and defend life. When the wolf strips off his "sheep's clothing" a few more will come around and change their mind set.
December 11th, 2007 10:25 AM
Unfortunate, but true. True of my wife. My wife was more or less anti because she takes after her momma, who hates firearms. Her twin brother accidentally shot himself at age 13 and died from the wounds. Setting her up for hate and fear for life I guess. She passed that down to her daughter. As for me, I was neutral for a long time about guns, and have never been a hunter
Originally Posted by goawayfarm
The only reason my wife does not have a problem with them these days is that in '04, we became victims of a thug with a .38. We both got our CC permits and some training, and she is on the other side of the fence now. Prior to this, I had been working on her for years to let me at least check into a gun, but no go.
December 11th, 2007 10:57 AM
You can lead a sheep to water but you can't make them Think.
December 11th, 2007 11:00 AM
Risk, Reward and CCW
Thanks for the post, Janq. Good food for thought. You've worked all of the matters out with your DW, so just keep being prepared yourself, and be patient and help her anyway you can.
Risk is hard to grasp sometimes. Even if risk (the probability of occurrence) is low, if the cost of suffering that risk too high, one acts to reduce the ultimate risk. Thus the concept of insurance, and the basis for "risk and return" in life, be it investments, behavior, or whatever.
Thought of in this fashion, a CCW is thus a form of insurance, meant to reduce potential costs in the event of an unlikely occurrence.
"He went on two legs, wore clothes and was a human being, but nevertheless he was in reality a wolf of the Steppes. He had learned a good deal . . . and was a fairly clever fellow. What he had not learned, however, was this: to find contentment in himself and his own life. The cause of this apparently was that at the bottom of his heart he knew all the time (or thought he knew) that he was in reality not a man, but a wolf of the Steppes."
December 11th, 2007 11:58 AM
There have been many times when I heard someone say, "It was just his time to die." And most people just accept that. But I have never heard anyone say, "It was just his time to be robbed." And to say, "It was just her time to be raped." is so repugnant I almost didn't post it here. There is no right time to be a victim.
Originally Posted by Janq
I to occasionally face an uphill battle with people. I have a private pilot's license and love to take people flying that have never been up in a small plane. However, my sister refuses to go up with me. She is worried about being in one of those plane crashes you hear about on the news all the time. The reason you hear about them on the news is becasue there are relatively rare. Unlike car crashes that occur everyday. I am always amazed at what people fear and don't fear.
Janq, you have an uphill battle compounded by the fact that ignorance is bliss. I wish you the best of luck.
December 11th, 2007 02:43 PM
I know I have posted this before, but here is my wife’s story….
I started her shooting when we dating, at the ripe old age of 15. I started her with a 22 rifle and shooting Mrs. Butterworth bottles. I wonder now as they sell the in antique shops for 4 up to 10 bucks how much money I wasted. Anyway, she learned to have fun shooting. When I started her on silhouette targets, she always shot the crouch out 1st.
When we took the Carry class, she had the highest score in the class; how she does it I do not know. She is blind in her right eye, shoots right handed and aims with her left eye. But she does.
So after getting her permit and a Kel-Tec 32 she started carrying it SOMETIMES, if she felt the place she was going could be a problem. She would not carry if she felt safe. Our instructor was a TBI agent and made the comment ,”I do not care if you have a 1,000 tricked out Sig setting on your dresser, if you cannot find a pistol you are willing to carry with you at all times, you are just fooling yourself, and wasting my time.” That has really stuck with me over the years, and I used to give her a hard time about not carrying all the time.
My wife is a certified Aerobics Instructor, and at 53 still teaches twice a week at our church. She feels safe there so she usually does not carry there. Anyway she teaches a mixed class…female / male, and has a 2nd instructor that helps. A guy comes in and tells the 2nd instructor that he is checking out the class for his wife. She my wife is teaching and the other instructor scream “JOAN, get your gun” only problem, Joan does not have it with her. She turns and looks, he is grabbing purses up by the arm full. But luckily the guy does not know that she is unarmed. He throws them down and cuts out running.
She calls 911 from her cell phone and is on hold for 14 minutes listening to a recording saying do not hang up as that will only delay our response time. Finally a LEO shows up 35 minutes later. The newspaper runs a article the next day tilted “Annie get your gun…. Even if it is only a pretend one.”
I call NRA radio and tell them about it. They interview her on the program about it. After they are through they ask her “What was the 1st thought that went through your mind” She replied, “Of all the times not to have my pistol” AND then says “My 2nd thought was… My husband is going to kill me!”
She now carries anywhere we go or at least ask me if I have mine before we go out the door.
So anyone who thinks it can’t or will not happen to them just ask my wife!
1942 M3 Autocar Half-track...M3A1 Diamond T Half-track...57mm Anti-Tank Cannon
NRA Endowment Member...President West TN Military Vehicle Collectors...MVPA Member
December 11th, 2007 03:53 PM
always a good story no matter how many times i hear it. and of course my old plt sgt and myself have been speaking with our XO about ccw. both on the force pro angle statistics and so on. he keeps saying that besides iraq he's never needed a gun to defend himself and has no reason to carry one now.
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
December 11th, 2007 04:09 PM
Just keep working on her - she may come around in time - you have many convincing arguments. She is very lucky to have you as her husband. I guess being the sheepdog can be a thankless task at times, believe me. My wife took her CCW class this past Saturday after having many of the same conversations that I'm sure you've had with your spouse over the years. There were 17 in the class - 4 gals - and she was the best shot of all 17 - am really proud of her. Now we'll wait 45 days for MO and 100 + days for UT.
The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
- Winston Churchill
Endowment Life Member - NRA
Life Member - GOA
Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980
December 11th, 2007 05:37 PM
Your wife is right, the odds are highly in her favor that you will carry all you life and only use you pistol and defense training at the range. That is a good thing.
At the same time, she also knows it is possible you will be confronted at some point.
You are the family protector, she is portraying to you what she would like her family world to be like without violence and bad guys. Fortunatly for most of us, her vision is a reality for many of us.
I hope she is right.
You want to make suer she is right.
There is no wrong answer here, she has you to protect her, that is your responsibility to your wife and family, I doubt you would disagree.
She probably has never seen or been around a BG or crackhead and hopes it never happens.
You may be in the same boat, but you at least know they exist. There is nothing wrong with being prepared. There are multiple levels of preparation. Please be encouraged to choose what level of pereparation you want/need that works for you and you family and go for it.
When other people see other law abide citizens who are prepared, sometimes, maybe always armed, and then find you are a great person and family man, they begin to understand what it is about too. Especially if they have an altercation and have not prepared themselves.
Best to you and your family, be prepared.
December 11th, 2007 05:42 PM
If I can pack there, I will. If not, I won't go is my rule. The hospital for a emergency is the 1 exception, and work since I work in Corrections.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
December 11th, 2007 06:15 PM
My experience is similar to Janq's. It seems most people are hard-wired in their thinking, and I/we seem as misguided to them as they do to us.
These are my four topics better left to discussions with like minded people.
December 11th, 2007 10:21 PM
Good post Janq. I agree with the odds mentality of the change/no-change victim. It really is 50/50 even if the anti in question does become a victim.
I've personally just about given up hope on any anti's lately. I don't bother trying to convince them anymore. I pick off the easy targets and try to bring them into the fold and leave the rest to fend for themselves.
All our talk of fire-extinguishers, fire-insurance, seatbelts, etc... are all logical arguments, but we for the most part, are not dealing with logical people. We're dealing with fear and emotionally driven people. Even the few that do see the need (like your wife asking if you had your gun when someone was outside the window), are fearful of the truth and the need and therefore don't want to see or hear anything of it. Those are the folks that given the right(or unfortunately wrong) circumstances will "support the troops", but would never think of touching a firearm or any other tool to defend themselves for that matter.
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
December 11th, 2007 11:35 PM
Janq... Thank you... I have started dating recently, and the woman I am dating has found out that I have my CC permit... I always carry my gun and my TDI knife... she does not like it. She is not from this county, she grew up in Vietnam... and has a very different outlook on guns in general. I thought I might be able to convince her that I am the good guy. She met me and liked me before she knew I carried... but she has had a dream or two of me shooting her with my gun... and now she is asking me to leave my gun home if we go out on dates... which I refuse to do.
Reading about what you are going through, has opened my eyes even more... as much as I may like this woman, she may never be comfortable with me carrying. I have asked her to go to the range with me, I have a rifle that I would be happy to teach her to shoot... all she will tell me is that will never happen. I may just have to move on and find someone less anti.
December 12th, 2007 01:07 AM
Thanks folks for the feedback and support.
I have been reading all of your posts.
I've been quiet as I'd just not had anything further to say. :(
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
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