Federal CCW Off-Limits Laws

Federal CCW Off-Limits Laws

This is a discussion on Federal CCW Off-Limits Laws within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know that carrying in any federal building (including post offices) is off-limits, but are there any others that I need to know about? What ...

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Thread: Federal CCW Off-Limits Laws

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Federal CCW Off-Limits Laws

    I know that carrying in any federal building (including post offices) is off-limits, but are there any others that I need to know about?

    What about banks and credit unions? Don't appear to be off-limits per CT statute, but what about Federal?

    I could use a little help here.

    Thanks,

    Mike
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Nope.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Post office carry is legal unless your state law says otherwise. It is not prohibited by federal law.

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    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Post office carry is legal unless your state law says otherwise. It is not prohibited by federal law.
    I beg to differ. 39 CFR 232 states:

    (l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    I doubt going to the post office to mail a letter or buy stamps would constitute official business.

    EDIT: Also, 18 USC 390 states:

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

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    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    One of the exemptions to carrying in a Federal facility.
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
    I believe other lawful purpose would apply for allowing post office carry, so long as you are not breaking any other laws.

    Link to full law...http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...Cite:+18USC930

    As a side note check out the definition of "dangerous weapon" in section (g)(2). Knife with blades longer than 2 1/2'' are considered dangerous weapons.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Mag View Post
    One of the exemptions to carrying in a Federal facility. I believe other lawful purpose would apply for allowing post office carry, so long as you are not breaking any other laws.

    Link to full law...http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...Cite:+18USC930

    As a side not check out the definition of "dangerous weapon" in section (g)(2). Knife with blades longer than 2 1/2'' are considered dangerous weapons.
    I agree on that point 500Mag, but I wonder which takes precedence, this exception in 18 USC 390, or the prevention listed in 39 CFR 232? Any llawyers want to chime in on this?
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

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    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    Not a lawyer but I believe the USC takes precedent.

    Particullary the regulation in question begins, "Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law..." I take that to mean the other law takes precedent. Again to the best of my knowledge of the law, so I could be wrong.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    The CFR cannot override USC. The CFR explains this.

    If you read the federal law, the post office is not a federal facility by its own definition.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
    thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
    official duties.
    The post office employees are NOT federal employees. There is a friend of my inlaws that lives a half mile away that works at the PO. He is not a federal employee. The government does not own the postal service. It is regulated by the government. It is overseen by a board of directors who are NOT federal employees. The Postmaster General and the Postal Inspectors are the ONLY federal employees that has involvement with the USPS. The general sales clerks are NOT federal employees.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    http://www.federaldaily.com/postal/overview.htm

    First line: emphasis mine

    The Postal Service is one of the largest civilian organizations
    .

    The postal service is not made up of Federal employees, they are private employees. Therefore the postal office, who does not employ federal employees, is not a federal facility as in order to be a federal facility, they have to employ federal employees. The postal inspectors ARE federal employees but do not work AT the post offices. They may visit them during the course of their job duties, just like a police officer may visit a laundromat during his job duties but he is not a laundromat employee.

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    Member Array starshooter231's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    The post office employees are NOT federal employees. There is a friend of my inlaws that lives a half mile away that works at the PO. He is not a federal employee. The government does not own the postal service. It is regulated by the government. It is overseen by a board of directors who are NOT federal employees. The Postmaster General and the Postal Inspectors are the ONLY federal employees that has involvement with the USPS. The general sales clerks are NOT federal employees.
    Don't the PG and PIs work at the post office?
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Check the last two sentences of the post you quoted.

    Then read this in the post above that one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45
    The postal inspectors ARE federal employees but do not work AT the post offices.
    Here is the key phrase from the federal law:
    where Federal
    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
    official duties.
    The Postmaster General and Postal Inspectors are NOT regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties ON US POSTAL OFFICE PROPERTY. They work out of seperate offices. The actual post office where you drop your mail off and buy stamps, etc is NOT where the PG or PIs work. Because these federal employees do NOT work at the post offices, they are not federal facilities by the law's definition of a federal facility.

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    If it's unlawful to carry within, it should be posted at the front door.
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    So, if postal property cannot be considered a Federal facility, then can't the Postal Service make it's own regulations regarding, well, anything? If so, do they not have to abide by state and local laws? The last Post Office I was in only had one 8 1/2 x 11 page stating that all weapons were banned from the property, and it was posted well above my head (no, I'm not a 'little person'), behind glass and amidst several other postings (mostly outdated, btw).
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    No. It is regulated by federal law. The postal service cannot change a regulation without going through the federal legislature branch. This is a gray area which gives much confusion on the subject. The USPS has no authority over itself, if that makes sense. It cannot regulate itself, as the USPS is regulated by the government.

    In order to be set in stone illegal to carry any weapon into the post office, they would have to deem postal employees federal employees and get rid of 18 USC 390 sub d. Possibly an exception for LE.

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