Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property - Page 2

Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property

This is a discussion on Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MattLarson It's not forgetfulness, it's criminally culpable negligence. It is her firearm, and she has an absolute duty to know where it ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    It's not forgetfulness, it's criminally culpable negligence. It is her firearm, and she has an absolute duty to know where it is at all times.

    Even leaving aside for the moment the monumental negligence of dropping the firearm outside the entrance to the school and not even knowing it, it was unlawful for her to take it out of the vehicle in the first place on school grounds.

    It doesn't make her a "hardened criminal", but it was a felony. She'll probably lose her CWFL and her job.

    Matt
    Agreed... though my comment was in regards to "bringing a gun on school property" which is a felony in some states (KY allows you to have in car on your person, as long as you don't exit the vehicle). How many have left the vehicle, or the gun was tucked away in a purse, forgetting it was there.

    Dropping and leaving a weapon on the ground is a different matter.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    Carrying with or without a permit, lawful or unlawful, you're responsible for your firearm at all times. My concern isn't so much with her possession on a school campus, my concern is the gun being found on the ground where a little kid could pick it up.

  3. #18
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    I "like" this part,"That was little consolation for parents who later found out their kids were so close to a loaded weapon". I wonder if the parents are shaking in their shoes every time an officer comes around their kids.
    Give me a break!! Like this inanimate object is just going to jump up and chase a kid down and shoot it. That kind of language should be libelous. The media needs to be held responsible for their "Hype" hogwash that they put out there.
    Why do we give the media the power we have given them. We need to use all these forums to expose the ignorance and preposterousness of the media. Makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    She should feel very fortunate that this only resulted in an arrest. It's ironic that an educator seems to have forgone a proper education in firearms safety.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

  5. #20
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    In Israel, all teachers and staff are required to carry and be proficient with handguns to protect the children and as battle scarred and torn as that country is, they don't have problems with shooters in their schools.
    Just more proof that if lots of good folks were carrying guns all the time, we wouldn't have the killings that we have had the last two weeks.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    I "like" this part,"That was little consolation for parents who later found out their kids were so close to a loaded weapon". I wonder if the parents are shaking in their shoes every time an officer comes around their kids.
    Give me a break!! Like this inanimate object is just going to jump up and chase a kid down and shoot it. That kind of language should be libelous. The media needs to be held responsible for their "Hype" hogwash that they put out there.
    Why do we give the media the power we have given them. We need to use all these forums to expose the ignorance and preposterousness of the media. Makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I believe the issue is elementary kids finding the gun and thinking it was a toy (not that this ever happens right?)...bang bang (not that this ever happens right?).

    I'm always amazed when people think it is the media's fault. Like they caused the crime (and it was a crime). People don't like the result or think of the bigger picture. Her irresponsibility could quite easily have caused the death of a child.

    Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemy...

    Rick

  7. #22
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    bandit383,
    I was very well aware of what the "issue" was. Is this the scenario? Teacher running late and grabs a bunch of stuff in those big bags they carry of all the stuff they work on at home, and is hurrying to get to the class room on time and never notices the loss or what is in the bag. Honest mistake? You bet!! We have all seen this of the teachers who are very dedicated to their children and are involved in all kinds of extracurricular activities as leaders and they are busy all the time.
    Yes she is responsible for her weapon, and all the other points that were brought up. In a rural town, the principal would have called her in and asked her to be a little more careful and said no more. Probably had some young teacher or secretary, brought up to be afraid of guns, their own shadows, and everything else sheep are afraid of, who made a big stink about it.

    What I'm saying is that the news media needs to quit saying ridiculous crap as was said in this instance.

    If guns kill people, then all my guns are defective because they have never killed anybody!
    Also, was it a 5 shot revolver or was she carrying it on an empty chamber? Doesn't make any difference but that shows the mindset and attention to safety. And also, in her mid 50's. How many problems do we have in this country with school teachers in their mid 50's hurting kids?
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  8. #23
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    While no one can defend an unattended loaded gun in public, what ever happened to teaching gun safety to kids? It should have been a simple act of finding the sidearm, and taking it into the school office and giving it to a resposible adult.
    The general public has been trained to treat a gun like it was an armed plutonium bomb - only a select few can have it and only under strict controlled conditions.
    Schools ought to teach gun safety, and teachers ought to have the option of CCW...


    Aside - I was out a few nights ago with a LEO and we were having dinner, when one of his associates came over and slapped him on the back, shook hands and asked "Are you packing heat?" It was just so unexpected, I just about rolled on the floor, it embarrased the LEO so much... (He was not in uniform, and not packing...)

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    bandit383, I was very well aware of what the "issue" was. Is this the scenario? Teacher running late and grabs a bunch of stuff in those big bags they carry of all the stuff they work on at home, and is hurrying to get to the class room on time and never notices the loss or what is in the bag. Honest mistake? You bet!!
    That is the essence I am getting at...thanks abuttermilk, you make my point for me. It is a tremendous responsibility to carry a weapon in our society. But I find it disingenuous to simply dismiss someone that drops her weapon because it was and "honest mistake"...and because she was a school teacher and possibly in a hurry. This could of had a very tragic outcome...do you dismiss this because it was an honest mistake? Where is the accountability and responsibility of carrying...rural or otherwise?

    We should hold CCW to the highest standards...we are our worst enemy by dumbing it down. If you do...we will have anarchy.

    Rick

  10. #25
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    bandit383,
    Honest mistake? You bet!! In a rural town, the principal would have called her in and asked her to be a little more careful and said no more. Probably had some young teacher or secretary, brought up to be afraid of guns, their own shadows, and everything else sheep are afraid of, who made a big stink about it.



    . And also, in her mid 50's. How many problems do we have in this country with school teachers in their mid 50's hurting kids?
    I have a 6 year old kid in kindergarten right now. I teach him about firearms. My child knows to respect guns, he knows to never touch my gun. He knows that if he ever sees my gun and I am not right there with it, to leave it alone and find me or mommy and to tell us where it is. Most kids are not taught this. most kids don't have a gun at home. Most kids are brought up watching tv where a gun is cool. A lot of kids would see a gun, pick it up and show it to their friends or play with it. I feel bad for this teacher because she is in her 50's and will most likely lose her job. However, I also don't think she should just be taken into the principals office and be given a "talking to". As ccw holders we bring guns into places, situations where they normally wouldn't be. We are held to a higher standard and rightfully so. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for "losing" her gun on school grounds. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for even bringing the gun onto school property at all, mistakenly or not. If as a ccw holder, you don't know where each and every gun that you own is at all times, then you don't deserve to have a ccw license. I feel bad that this teacher is going to lose her job. I don't feel bad that she is going to lose her CCW. As far as how many 50 year old teachers hurt kids? Thats not the issue, the issue is there was an unattended gun on the floor in a school. Guns don't kill people, negligence, complacency, stupidity kills people. This teacher was all of the above. If a kid got that gun, there may have been an obituary in the paper as well as this story. The media didn't "HYPE" this story. Every argument has 2 sides. We as ccw holders make it a point to show stories of guns saving lives of good guys. Anti-gun people will lock onto this story and rightfully so. This was not media hype. This was a ccw holder giving the anti-gun people an absolutely perfect story to use in their anti-gun arsenal. The media is not to blame. there is no-one to blame but an absent-minded, negligent gun owner and ccw holder.

  11. #26
    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    At the same time, if it were legal for teachers with a valid CWL to carry when on the job, the gun woud have more than likely been secure on or about her person. Not that it's any excuse for being unaware of the whereabouts of her weapon, but it would have prevented the situation in the first place if it had been lawfully concealed.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    It was EXTREEMLY irresponsable of her to bring that gun into school, to not have it on her person (body), but in a purse, book bag, whatever. To 'drop' it unknowingly.....etc....etc....etc.

    That's as bad or worse than 'forgetting' about the gun in your purse and trying to get into Disneyworld.

    Orlando isn't the safest of cities, but this seems to a reoccuring theme down there all of a sudden.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  13. #28
    Member Array RobbW's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem so much with her bringing the gun to school as a permit holder. I believe all states should be like Utah and Alaska and allow permit holders to carry in schools.

    I have a huge problem with her losing control of her gun, not knowing it was missing, and not knowing where it was. Hugely irresponsible! She deserves to lose her permit over that, IMHO.

    I wish her luck, but it's hard to feel sorry for her given that degree of negligence. She makes it harder for our country to reclaim 2A rights.

    FWIW, this is why the NRA promotes safety with Eddie Eagle. Kids, if you see an unattended gun:

    1. Stop!
    2. Don't touch!
    3. Get away!
    4. Tell an adult!

    Too bad the Antis won't allow Eddie to come to their schools and teach safety. The Eddie program does not promote gun ownership, just gun safety. On yet another point the Antis are inadvertently causing tragedy.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    If she is that absent-minded, she shouldnt be carrying in the first place.......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    My daughter's school....

    Sorry I missed this thread when I posted my own this morning.

    She's a 2d grader. We just came from there having attended the class holiday play. News crews all over the place. I have to admit, the couple of parents that I talked to seemed to have an appropriate take on the situation. No real cries of horror about the evils of firearm ownership or the right to carry. More concern over the loss of control of the weapon for which she was responsible......which of course is the whole issue here.

    We can argue all day long against gun free zones and advocate for the right for teachers to carry for their own and our kids' protection, but you still have to exert positive control over the weapon or bad things can happen. When they do, it reflects on us all and is just more fodder for the anti-gun/anti-carry kooks.

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