Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property - Page 4

Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property

This is a discussion on Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everyone's emotional responses seem to be based on the negligence of the teacher based on "what if" scenarios of a minor getting ahold of the ...

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Thread: Teacher arrested-loaded firearm on school property

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Everyone's emotional responses seem to be based on the negligence of the teacher based on "what if" scenarios of a minor getting ahold of the firearm and shooting themselves or someone else. So here's one for ya:

    "What if" someone unknowingly dropped their car keys next to the car and some kid picked them up and went for a "joy ride" and subsequently ran over someone. Should that vehicle's owner be prevented from driving or for that matter owning a car for the rest of their natural life?

    The way I see it, there's no difference between my "what if" and all of everyone else's what if.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  2. #47
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Everyone's emotional responses seem to be based on the negligence of the teacher based on "what if" scenarios of a minor getting ahold of the firearm and shooting themselves or someone else. So here's one for ya:

    "What if" someone unknowingly dropped their car keys next to the car and some kid picked them up and went for a "joy ride" and subsequently ran over someone. Should that vehicle's owner be prevented from driving or for that matter owning a car for the rest of their natural life?

    The way I see it, there's no difference between my "what if" and all of everyone else's what if.
    Your "what if" scenario about dropping the car keys isn't a felony. The what-if scenario about kids and guns, just goes to show her stupidity. She is not losing her ccw license for being stupid (I think people should). She is losing her CCW for committing a FELONY. Bringing a gun onto school grounds, whether intentionally or not, is a felony. Dropping your car keys is not. Part of the argument for allowing more people to carry ccws in more places, is that we all undergo background checks. Those background checks mean that none of us have felony convictions. How can we continue with that argument if this teacher who committed a felony is allowed to keep her ccw? Whether we agree or not about guns being allowed on school grounds, whether we agree or not with the current gun laws, they ARE LAWS. She broke the law and should be punished accordingly. She has not plead guilty to anything yet though. The d.a. might not charge her with a felony or may let her off with a misdemeanor. I would be very surprised if the d.a. allows her to plead guilty to lesser charges AND allows her to keep her ccw. My guess would be that any plea deal, if offered, would include her surrendering her ccw license.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by takurpic View Post
    Is that a felony per Florida law? There is a provision for CCW in the federal law regarding GFSZ. (IAMNAL).

    Either way, she wouldn't have dropped the firearm had it been in a holster and a holster like the Smart Carry is deep concealment, as opposed to owb or iwb, and isn't likley to be discovered unless she removes her clothing.
    Yup - F.S. 790.115

    Possession of a firearm on school property (except in a private vehicle) is a felony.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  4. #49
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    And you know what is really bad?? When I was going to high school, every time someone got a new gun, they brought it to school. Including the principal and teachers. We all ooohed and aaahed over it and put it back in the car or truck and after school went to the hardware store and got a bunch of ammo and "field tested" it. The women teachers who wanted to buy their husbands or boyfriends a gun asked us kids which one we thought was best and where to get it at the best price, etc., etc..
    What has changed?
    The inane, stupid fear that people have been brought up with in the last 40 years that an inanimate object is dangerous!!
    Do you know what is on that train car that rolls through your town every day? If you did, it would cause some concern. Also, how about all the stuff hauled on 18 wheelers? Lots of that stuff is dangerous in a bad situation. But,,,,,, how many bad situations are there and is just the potential for a bad situation enough to have it banned?
    The gun was in a case in the parking lot at 7:45am and was picked up and controlled by an adult.
    What if,,,,,,,,,,? These situations can be what if'ed to death and only create more unnecessary hype.
    Do you not think that the lady, 56 years old, career elementary school teacher, does not feel terrible for this happening? Of course she does! And could she from this point on be a great advocate for gun safety? You betcha!!
    Condemnation and pontification seem to run rampant here! God forbid that any of you should EVER make a mistake!!!

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda,,,,,,,,,,, What if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his butt when he landed. But he doesn't, so he accepts it and moves on and doesn't sit around crying because he doesn't have wings!!!
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  5. #50
    Member Array Kevan's Avatar
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    The purpose of a gun is to apply lethal force, and it is very effective. That puts it in a different category from car keys, saws, or cigarette lighters. For an armed citizen to be considered reliable, he must take the utmost care to keep control of his firearms.

    She's done. It was an honest mistake, but she's done.
    I went to buy some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    And you know what is really bad?? When I was going to high school, every time someone got a new gun, they brought it to school. Including the principal and teachers. We all ooohed and aaahed over it and put it back in the car or truck and after school went to the hardware store and got a bunch of ammo and "field tested" it. The women teachers who wanted to buy their husbands or boyfriends a gun asked us kids which one we thought was best and where to get it at the best price, etc., etc..
    What has changed?
    The inane, stupid fear that people have been brought up with in the last 40 years that an inanimate object is dangerous!!
    Do you know what is on that train car that rolls through your town every day? If you did, it would cause some concern. Also, how about all the stuff hauled on 18 wheelers? Lots of that stuff is dangerous in a bad situation. But,,,,,, how many bad situations are there and is just the potential for a bad situation enough to have it banned?
    The gun was in a case in the parking lot at 7:45am and was picked up and controlled by an adult.
    What if,,,,,,,,,,? These situations can be what if'ed to death and only create more unnecessary hype.
    Do you not think that the lady, 56 years old, career elementary school teacher, does not feel terrible for this happening? Of course she does! And could she from this point on be a great advocate for gun safety? You betcha!!
    Condemnation and pontification seem to run rampant here! God forbid that any of you should EVER make a mistake!!!

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda,,,,,,,,,,, What if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his butt when he landed. But he doesn't, so he accepts it and moves on and doesn't sit around crying because he doesn't have wings!!!
    So we just excuse the commission of a felony if the perpetrator feels terrible?

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    Coulda, woulda, shoulda,,,,,,,,,,, What if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his butt when he landed. But he doesn't, so he accepts it and moves on and doesn't sit around crying because he doesn't have wings!!!
    That illogical response defies rationality...we are not talking about frogs :))

    I think the "what if" is important...it is how laws and standards in part are developed. I think the Principal reporting it acted accordingly. After committing a felony, she dropped/lost her weapon, and potentially put others in jeapardy. The buck stops with her...please stop trying to mitigate it by what it was like 40 years ago. It is not 40 years ago now...the mass shootings of late in part confirm that. I am a bit amazed how some look at it as a simple mistake by a 56 year old teacher. Is there a bit of profiling going on? What if it was a college kid that lost his/her weapon on campus? Then the weapon was used in a crime? I bet a few of you might change your tune...and chalk it up to maturity. I don't think it has anything to do with maturity, age, vocation, or state...it has to do with responsibility and accountability. Until we accept that, we will always always be second guessed.

    Rick

  8. #53
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    I agree with the comments about her irresponsibility, but I was also somewhat amused by the following comment in the news story.

    "That was little consolation for parents who later found out their kids were so close to a loaded weapon."

    "It's just insanity," said parent Heather Wifall. "You shouldn't bring a gun on campus."

    Oh my Gawd, they were near a loaded weapon! Boy they are lucky it didn't jump up and start shooting at them all by itself.

    You shouldn't bring a gun to school because it's insanity? Well yes it is, when insane people bring them to kill kids with. How insane is it to have a gun to protect the kids from those insane people?

    The lib press just can't write about guns without making a$$e$ out of themselves.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaystekan View Post
    Noone said she can't defend herself for the rest of her life. Let her keep a gun on her home. .
    Roger that. Then she can stay in her house for the rest of her life where she will have the right to defend herself.

    The perhaps those who want her pilloried, all those of you who have never made a mistake, can get together and do her shopping for her so she won't have to leave her house.


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Letting your gun end up on the ground, out of your control, is definitely a no-no and, alas, she probably deserves whatever ends up happening legally.

    More importantly, though, are the interesting things I learned about guns by reading these articles (particularly the second)! To wit:
    • Only hardened criminals carry loaded guns, especially when loaded with hollow-point bullets.
    • Only adults are capable of safely and responsibly handling firearms.
    • People who carry guns are insane.
    • Wonderful people who go to church regularly clearly have no need for firearms.
    Thank goodness for journalists.

    "By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, journalism keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community."
    ---Oscar Wilde
    + 1 on the my friend.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKelly View Post
    When enough laws are passed so that a passive act (such as forgetfulness in this case) becomes a criminal act, then anyone can become a "hardened criminal".
    I'm afraid that is where we're headed.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGibson View Post
    Carrying with or without a permit, lawful or unlawful, you're responsible for your firearm at all times. My concern isn't so much with her possession on a school campus, my concern is the gun being found on the ground where a little kid could pick it up.
    Bingo!

    BTW she's now fueled the fire of _all_ the people who are against on campus/school carry as the most common statement toward as much has been 'What if the person drops or loses their gun as sitting in their purse or backpack and/or it's taken from them?'.

    Thanks alot lady.
    Next time spend a few bucks on a holster, that attaches to your body securely.
    Oh yeah...there won't be a next time for you, if not us too.

    Nice way to represent all us 'sane and sensible' people. :(

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Bingo!

    BTW she's now fueled the fire of _all_ the people who are against on campus/school carry as the most common statement toward as much has been 'What if the person drops or loses their gun as sitting in their purse or backpack and/or it's taken from them?'.

    Thanks alot lady.
    Next time spend a few bucks on a holster, that attaches to your body securely.
    Oh yeah...there won't be a next time for you, if not us too.

    Nice way to represent all us 'sane and sensible' people. :(

    - Janq
    Couldn't have said it any better!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  14. #59
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    +1 Janq

    I don't think a convicted felon can have firearms or ammunition anymore. The media will try to hit us on this one, but I still hope she gets off with a misdemeanor, so she can protect herself in her home.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
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  15. #60
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    It's troubling. Not only the fact that the professional lost track of the weapon, but that many of our own members are so willing to sacrifice one of our own in the hopes of what? To appease the people who want to take what is rightfully ours? She made a mistake, no one was injured, except her personal career. How about making sure she is not denied the right to teach? Our numbers are somewhat small, but at the first sign of trouble it seems the ones in front are getting into the habit of cut & run. Why? Are we so trained now by the media that losing is what we do best? So now we sacrifice anyone & everyone that might be less than stellar?

    Stop being so willing to sacrifice the people who are in our ranks, even when they do stupid things. We don't need opposition, we our own.

    PS You only have 11 shopping days 'til Christmas...

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