How's this for a little controversy?

This is a discussion on How's this for a little controversy? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Saw this post over at Glock Talk. I do this same thing with my pocket carry. "I know one of the cardinal sins of gun ...

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Thread: How's this for a little controversy?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    How's this for a little controversy?

    Saw this post over at Glock Talk. I do this same thing with my pocket carry.

    "I know one of the cardinal sins of gun handling is NOT having your finger on the trigger or in the trigger guard unless the sights are on target, good backstop, etc.

    However, I can think of one instance I do all the time. I pocket carry some pistols a leather pocket holster. If I'm in a situation where I feel the need to partially draw the gun, I put the trigger finger BEHIND the trigger to get a better grip and there's plenty of space. Basically, I have the gun in a full fist grip and I can really rip it out if needed and/or there's a snag.

    Anyone else do this? I could see it being done with revolvers, too. I do not view this as a safety hazard or violation as there's NO way the trigger can be pulled. My finger essentially acts the same as the Glock trigger block."

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  3. #2
    Member Array josh's Avatar
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    In a time of stress you'd better be 100% positive your finger is indeed behind the trigger, and not on it. Could make for an aweful mess if you go ripping your gun out of your pocket and it's in the wrong spot!

    Just be careful!

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Not a chance, to easy to make a mistake. One should only pocket carry with an appropriate holster that covers the trigger. With practice, drawing and getting finger in a firing position once the gun is clear of the pocket and aimed away from your own body will become natural and no time reduced in getting the shot off.

    Finger behind the trigger when pulling a gun will actuall slow the process down, and removing your finger and replacing it can cause your gun to drift way off target.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Okay, but...

    If you are in a stressful enough situation that you are preparing to draw, are you absolutely, positively, 100% sure that your finger is between grip and trigger, rather than trigger and guard?

    I can see why one would be tempted, but I think I'd rather put the effort into finding a better pocket holster or better pockets!

    By the way, since I don't pocket carry, I am curious---how do you actually clear the gun from the holster when you draw? Can it be done one-handed? I am just having a little trouble visualizing this...

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMan View Post
    Not a chance, to easy to make a mistake. One should only pocket carry with an appropriate holster that covers the trigger. With practice, drawing and getting finger in a firing position once the gun is clear of the pocket and aimed away from your own body will become natural and no time reduced in getting the shot off.

    Finger behind the trigger when pulling a gun will actuall slow the process down, and removing your finger and replacing it can cause your gun to drift way off target.
    Well, I pay attention and I can very quickly transition my finger from behind the trigger to along the slide as soon as the pistol clears my pocket. I like having the much more secure grip to "rip" it out.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    I pocket carry my P3AT all the time, and I've adopted the draw that Ayoob showed on PDTV. Basically, you palm the gun, with your thumb over the hammer and all four fingers straight. With your hand flat, it comes out of the pocket MUCH easier, and your thumb prevents snagging. Go ahead, try it - even without a gun. Put your hand fully in your pants pocket, and make a fist. Now, try to pull it out. Repeat this, but with your hand flat. Voila!

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    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    By the way, since I don't pocket carry, I am curious---how do you actually clear the gun from the holster when you draw? Can it be done one-handed? I am just having a little trouble visualizing this...
    Yes, pocket holsters are designed to be used one handed. How the heck are ya going to get both hands in one pocket? It's very easy to get a grip on the pistol because mine has a fold away flap. I draw the pistol up just enough to slip my finger behind the trigger, but it's not visible out of the pocket yet.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberbp22 View Post
    I do not view this as a safety hazard or violation as there's NO way the trigger can be pulled. My finger essentially acts the same as the Glock trigger block."
    So how long does it take you fumbling around in your pocket to find the right location for your finger? Why is it you feel the need to add an extra 'safety' device to your pistol? Maybe you need something with an external safety now you mentioned that. My Glock(s) are very safe as long as my finger is nowhere near the trigger! As per your question------NO, I've never done that, and never will. I seriously hope you haven't made a habit of that. Don't be offended by what I say----just change your ways.

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    I pocket carry my P3AT all the time, and I've adopted the draw that Ayoob showed on PDTV. Basically, you palm the gun, with your thumb over the hammer and all four fingers straight. With your hand flat, it comes out of the pocket MUCH easier, and your thumb prevents snagging. Go ahead, try it - even without a gun. Put your hand fully in your pants pocket, and make a fist. Now, try to pull it out. Repeat this, but with your hand flat. Voila!
    I just tried this and there's no difference in thickness with my fingers wrapped around the grip or straight out, which won't work with my holster anyway. The distance from my thumb to my middle finger knuckle remains the same either way.

    Also, I don't even see how that can work. Thumb over the hammer/back of the slide and the rest of the fingers flat??? You don't even have a grip on the pistol. Sure, you'd have to squeeze it, but it's too easy to slip out of your hand.

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    Member Array kf4uel's Avatar
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    Cops do it

    Ive noticed police do this... Check out their trigger finger, its usually curled around the grip! Talk about lack of control, I think this makes it easier for someone to take the gun outta their hand or drop it in a panic situation.... Would you say they do that to prevent unintentional capital punishment lol

    EDIT## ill claify, this is usually after the draw, ill have to investigate their actual drawing procedures.
    "What if? If not, who needs seatbelts, life rafts, and fire extingishers. Sure theres other ways, if thats what you want... I know ill be alive, dry, and not on fire!"

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  12. #11
    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    So how long does it take you fumbling around in your pocket to find the right location for your finger? Why is it you feel the need to add an extra 'safety' device to your pistol? Maybe you need something with an external safety now you mentioned that. My Glock(s) are very safe as long as my finger is nowhere near the trigger! As per your question------NO, I've never done that, and never will. I seriously hope you haven't made a habit of that. Don't be offended by what I say----just change your ways.
    I'm not using my finger as a "safety device". I just mentioned it to provide a better picture. It takes zero extra time and there's no fumbling involved. A full fisted grip ensures a much more reliable pocket draw...for me. I'll continue in my ways and if I have a ND, I promise I'll fess up and post about it. Carry on.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I practice drawing from the pocket with an empty gun. It is carried in a Galco pocket hoster.
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  14. #13
    Ex Member Array kimberbp22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    I practice drawing from the pocket with an empty gun. It is carried in a Galco pocket hoster.
    Me, too. It's amazing what practice can do.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberbp22 View Post
    I just tried this and there's no difference in thickness with my fingers wrapped around the grip or straight out, which won't work with my holster anyway. The distance from my thumb to my middle finger knuckle remains the same either way.

    Also, I don't even see how that can work. Thumb over the hammer/back of the slide and the rest of the fingers flat??? You don't even have a grip on the pistol. Sure, you'd have to squeeze it, but it's too easy to slip out of your hand.
    It's not the position of your fingers that causes draw problems, but the position of your thumb. With your thumb wrapped around the gun, you've added extra bulk to try to get out of your pocket. When I said "fingers straight" I didn't mean with knuckles locked, forced flat like a board. I meant that you should just relax your hand and use a minimum of pressure to draw the gun from the pocket holster, like you were trying to palm a pack of cigarettes or playing cards.

    I can't ever see "ripping" the gun as fast as possible, full fisted, out of my pocket as a good idea. First off, as with all things shooting, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Don't get in so much of a hurry to get the gun out that you've got a death grip on it before it leaves your pocket. Your trigger finger, no matter how much you think you can control it, will be influenced by the force exerted by the rest of your hand. Second, if it takes THAT much force to get your gun out of your holster then you need to break it in more. I can hold my Kel-Tec by the grip and the Ron Graham K-RAT will just fall right off of it, but when I hold the holster, the gun is firmly seated and doesn't rattle around.

  16. #15
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    No thanks... bad idea!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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