Yahoo group write up for Arkansas folks

This is a discussion on Yahoo group write up for Arkansas folks within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since I made a lengthy write up on the yahoo group from someone's question, I figured I'd post it here just for reference. None of ...

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Thread: Yahoo group write up for Arkansas folks

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Yahoo group write up for Arkansas folks

    Since I made a lengthy write up on the yahoo group from someone's question, I figured I'd post it here just for reference. None of this should be taken as legal advice, and you can always contact your local PD or state police to seek further information. This is my related experience with the subject of those who chose to carry with full intentions of being law-abiding citizens who do not have a CCW permit in the state of Arkansas.



    --- In ArkansasShooters@ yahoogroups. com, "www.bigpaul"
    <www.bigpaul@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > coming from a dummy.what are the laws about carrying a handgun in your
    > vehicle ?
    >
    If you do not have a CCW permit from the state, you would be under the
    'journey' law. That is pretty vague, but if ever caught with the
    weapon during a traffic stop---they would have to prove you were
    intending to use it as a weapon. That is to do harm in actions. Like
    stated before---it depends on whom you ask. A 'journey' as put to me
    by a legal adviser is: any time you travel outside your normal circle
    of friends or family, or your regular daily activities (scheduled).
    I've also been told it was any trip over 20 miles from your abode.
    Generally speaking---- there is also an unwritten five step rule that
    some local law enforcement agencies use in determining the condition
    of the firearm as to the owner's disposition for carrying. The
    firearm must not be loaded. This means empty chamber, no magazine.
    The magazine or speedloader will be kept separate from the firearm.
    Examples of the three step rule for pistols is as follows: Retrieve
    pistol from under the drivers seat or glove compartment (count one),
    retrieve magazine or speedloader from it's location (count two), open
    cylinder [revolvers], or rack the slide [semi autos](count three),
    insert live rounds from speedloader, or insert magazine (count four),
    close cylinder or release the slide (count five). If you follow these
    'unwritten' rules in your 'other than legal but not illegal' choice to
    carry, then you will likely be okay in the eyes of the law. Take my
    word only for the experience from my traffic stop in 1995 with a 357
    revolver under the front seat, and two speed loaders in the glove box.
    The involved police department did confiscate my gun, and I picked it
    up at the police station a week later. I'm sure they did some
    research on it via serial number or national check. At the time, one
    of the officers suggested I seek an Arkansas concealed weapons permit.
    In 2000 I did just that. If you would qualify for a CCW permit--I'd
    suggest the same thing for you. Otherwise--- there may be that day
    when the LEA isn't looking at things from your point of view. Be safe.

    __._,_.___

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  3. #2
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    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    Hmmm...interesting.

    I'll add a few comments to that from both my experiences as an AR.LEO and a CHL Instructor. I hope you understand that what I'm about to tell you comes from both experience and in keeping with close contact with the ASP and the District Prosecutors office when dealing with the CHL Laws. I am not a lawyer,thank goodness, so its possible that I may not be entirely correct when it comes to the finer aspects of the law and how it is interpreted.

    As for the 5 step "rule" I've never heard of it. Its entirely possible that this is a guide used by some departments, but I'm pretty sure its not in widespread use around the state.

    The "Journey" law is still and will always be a subject of great debate...even among lawyers. Its pretty vague in the way it was written, and I have heard of 20,25,40 and 50 miles being used as a general guideline. Fact of the matter is, there is no specific distance stated. This law dates from the mid 1800's when everyone was armed and some of the local towns enacted various laws dealing with guns. The Journey law was intended to shield travelers from local ordinances that may have prohibited them for carrying in the city limits.

    Using the Journey law as a guide of being able to carry is really stepping out there. While you may not have a problem with it in one city, you will have a problem with it in another. Within the incorporated city limits of Little Rock for instance, you will get arrested for having a concealed weapon in your vehicle without a permit, and they don't care where you come from and they'll let your lawyer figure it out.

    In some counties, such as the one I am in, its not a big deal to carry a loaded gun in a vehicle, quite few people do it. It depends on the circumstances. If you get pulled over for doing 65 in a 55, its probably not a big deal. If you happen to be DWI, it might. If you do anything that results in a arrest, it becomes a problem.
    Its entirely up to the officer as to how he acts and responds. Lots of scenarios here and one minor little fact can and will change the outcome.

    The "ACT 419 of 1995" as it is technically refereed to does supersede many of the various laws that were in place back then. Things have changed alot since 95, in fact in most cases it has gotten better for the citizen to be able to carry a concealed weapon. There are a few places though, that took the hard line and basically arrest anyone that doesn't have a CHL. Of course, there are exceptions in the law, for instance, being on private property, having a vested interest in a place of business and such where one isn't needed.

    While it is true that someone doesn't really need a permit to carry in the vehicle, there is much left to interpretation in the law, and like everything else, who stops you and how it goes down will depend on his point of view...not yours.

    The best thing is to get the CHL and leave out all of the variables...but you already knew that.

    I've heard it said more than once, and unfortunately it really does ring true. Alot of people get their CHL's not for protection from the "badguys".. but to not run afoul of the laws and stay out of trouble from the "good guys".
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I appreciate the addition of information.
    The journey law is still on the books. As to my experience in Washington county, my handgun was not loaded and with the location of the ammunition could not be construed as a weapon by law enforcement at the time. Arkansas' laws concerning these are

    Document Excerpts:
    Title Location
    1. 5-73-120. Carrying a weapon. Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    2. 5-73-127. Possession of loaded center-fire weapons in certain areas. Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    3. Subchapter 3 — Concealed Handguns Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    4. 5-73-301. Definitions. Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    5. 5-73-308. License — Issuance or denial. Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    6. 5-73-402. Recognition of other states' permits. Arkansas Code (Non annotated)
    7. 16-93-209. Concealed handguns.

    Another good site I've found: http://www.handgunlaw.us/

  5. #4
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    Yep..its still on the books. Since it does not adress a distance, but rather one going "beyond the circle of his neighbors" it does leave alot to interpretation.

    If you've read the statues, you'll see that many have been repealed or amended to include those with the CHL as being exempt from many of them.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

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