What is the "Anti" argument?

What is the "Anti" argument?

This is a discussion on What is the "Anti" argument? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I often see threads where people mention that "their entire family is anti gun" or "everyone at work is an anti" etc, etc. What do ...

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Thread: What is the "Anti" argument?

  1. #1
    Member Array DasBoot's Avatar
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    What is the "Anti" argument?

    I often see threads where people mention that "their entire family is anti gun" or "everyone at work is an anti" etc, etc.
    What do these people say when confronted with the obvious, common sense points about:
    1) Protecting yourself/family on the street or in your home.
    2) You could be dead before the police arrive.
    3) Only law abiding people observe gun laws, etc,etc,etc.

    I mean, what do they say when confronted with a home break-in scenario and the BG heading for the childrens room?

    I've never had to deal with a rabid Anti and the few times anyone even moved in that direction, they pretty much fell mute when self defense came up.

    What are your experiences?
    Criminals are not dissuaded by soft words, soft judges or easy laws. They are dissuaded by fear and they are prevented from repeating their crimes by death or by incarceration.


  2. #2
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    What seems logical to us - can with rabid anti's appear incomprehensible. They will not even listen sometimes however logical a presentation.

    This seems to be mostly because they are emotion driven - little sense of reality. Some feel guns are evil - guns per se ..... and they will not even ''soil'' their hands touching one. Some also live with heads in dark places - and consider nothing bad can happen to them - nice home, 2 kids, pay check and golf Saturday morning ... what else do they need!

    The ''middle ground'' anti's can be educated - and often are ... but the staunch anti's seem to have no sense of reality and are probably most interested in the control aspect of gun control.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  3. #3
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    My children's mothers are extremely anti-gun. I think mostly it is a lack of understanding, afraid of guns. Also an unwillingness to believe that there are people out there that will hurt you. My sons both shoot with me and enjoy it in spite there mother. I can see that with my daughter I'll need to be patient to bring her around (six and repeats verbatim whatever her mother says). Really, I think with todays media the uneducated (not gun savy) have a hard time with fact and fiction.

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    Member Array Jonnyghost's Avatar
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    I think you could find you answers here http://www.bradycampaign.org/
    Many of the anti gun people I know spout quotes directly from the brady campaign and often don't even realize it.
    Being peaceful does not guarantee peace, strength and a willingness to commit violence when needed does.

  5. #5
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    The most staunch anti-gun person firmly believes that if there were no guns, there would be no gun crime. They are absolutely correct that if guns didn't exist there would be no gun crime. What they will not acknowledge is that there would be <insert something here> crime. This is the slippery slope that the British have headed down. They ban guns, then knives, then ball bats, then glass mugs and so on.

    Another argument I hear from an anti-gun person is that if they had a gun they would shoot people in traffic. They ascribe their lack of emotional control to everyone else and so they believe that no one should have guns.

    Don't bother these people with facts or logic. You can only argue emotion with them. I don't like to argue that way, so I don't. I just tell them that if I happen upon them (or their family member) being brutally assaulted/raped/whatever, that me and my evil gun will call the police for them and continue on our way and wish them a happy life. That usually gets a, "you wouldn't help" reply. To which I say, I would call 911, that's helping right? Gets wheels turning in the smarter ones. The others I write off as 'food' for the BGs.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    Member Array DasBoot's Avatar
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    I just tell them that if I happen upon them (or their family member) being brutally assaulted/raped/whatever, that me and my evil gun will call the police for them and continue on our way and wish them a happy life. That usually gets a, "you wouldn't help" reply
    So what do they say if you say "yeah, I'll help your sorry butt with my .357"!
    Are they STILL against the use of a gun?
    Are there those that DO NOT think the use of a gun is justified under ANY circumstances?
    Again I would ask "How would you defend yourself"?
    Criminals are not dissuaded by soft words, soft judges or easy laws. They are dissuaded by fear and they are prevented from repeating their crimes by death or by incarceration.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    I don't have time right now (about to go do some last-minute Christmas shopping) but I'll write up a detailed post on this. My girlfriend's parents are what you could call anti-gun (and I've been dating her a little over two years, long enough to know her parents pretty well!). Her mother and I debate it on a regular basis. I'll explain her position (and mine...) when I'm home tonight.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.

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    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    My brother in-laws are the most antis I've seen on the Earth
    so stupid I could barf
    My brother has tried to show them the good of having a firearm for defensive and they just shook him off, even more now after they lost a young family member to a thug with a gun.
    They even refuse to allow their "teen" kids to have weapons, not even a shotgun in the house for home defense

    By the way, my brother is a Police Officer for over 20 years .
    I just have to tell him to "leave it alone, they'll learn. AGAIN "



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  9. #9
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    For every seemingly valid anti-gun argument there is a pro- gun counter argument.

    I say "seemingly valid", because there are no valid arguments and they are only valid to people that cannot comprehend logic.

    The real trick is to know when to speak and not to speak. If the people aren't perceptive to rational argument, then its time to shut up, otherwise you are wasting your time and theirs.

    One has to understand that some people do not believe in the concept of self defense..mostly people that have never been in the position to use it. It often takes a life changing event for them to understand and modify their thought process. Unfortunately, some of them wont live through it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    We recently had a gun "buy back" in my city. I know they took guns off the street. I would be willing to bet that there were no gun crime perpetrators that turned them in. I think people fail to realize that bad guys will have and use guns whether or not you do. The fact that they illegally have them does not change the fact that they have them.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    I could be wrong, and I'm sure that the "antis" would disagree with my assessment, but I believe there are basically two ways of looking at issues.

    1) What are the actual facts and what course of action or conclusion to they suggest? (Logic)
    2) How do I feel about this particular issue? (Emotion)

    So, some observations:
    - While there are people on both sides of the gun debate (and other debates) that are primarily emotion driven, the facts support the conclusions that we on this forum have come to, that guns, while perhaps distasteful to some, do in fact save lives and keep people safe.
    - Its very difficult to confront people who are primarily emotion-driven with facts. They have a tendency to get more emotional (in my experience) or simply ignore those facts and keep feeling the way they do. It can be very hard to change the opinion of a "feeler" since you are appealing to logic, when they may not even care what makes the most logical sense, just what "feels right" or "seems right" or "must be true."
    - There are certain people who believe that they are better than other people and/or smarter than everyone else and therefore can decide what everyone else should be allowed to do. Many politicians fall into this category. This is why we need God as the author of our liberties and guns in our homes. Big guns. Like the ones the military has. Lots of them.

    Just some thoughts.

    Mel
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  12. #12
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    Are there those that DO NOT think the use of a gun is justified under ANY circumstances?
    Again I would ask "How would you defend yourself"?
    I get the impression with a hard-core of anti's that they'd actually prefer to be injured or die - than do anything to defend themselves.

    Then we have those who accept the words of Police Chiefs - "Just do as the nice BG says and you won't get hurt''

    I think occasionally we might just get thru by asking - for example to a husband ... ''would you like to stand by and watch your wife/daughter raped at gun point - with no means to stop it ... the outcome being they get shot''.

    I guess there will still be some who will denounce the defensive gun.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matdicdad View Post
    We recently had a gun "buy back" in my city. I know they took guns off the street. I would be willing to bet that there were no gun crime perpetrators that turned them in. I think people fail to realize that bad guys will have and use guns whether or not you do. The fact that they illegally have them does not change the fact that they have them.
    I bet there were tons of guns sold back by BGs, they were the stolen ones that weren't good enough to sell on the street.

    Wonder if they end-up with any real nice H&K, Sigs, 1911s or are all the sold back guns crap.

  14. #14
    Member Array hickatheart's Avatar
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    obsorvations

    I think there are a lot of reasons folks are anti; fears, projection of own fears/inadaquacies on others, lack of knowledge, misinformation, and more. Rabid anti's are more unteachable, middle of the road folks perhaps still have hope of making the change if needed, before something really bad convinces them.

    Here's another reason, I see in my folks, who are not rabid, but have yet to be convinced. They see weapons as a risk, owning, carrying, using. Whereas a spare tire/fire extinguisher etc., poses little risk in owning/using/carrying. For them, the risk of carrying, is not outweighed by the risk faced unarmed.

    I grew up with this mentality. I'm not sure I buy the 'because I can' argument, I think everyone has a reason. I examined the risks in my life. Rural childhood smalltown crimes within walking distance: two vehicles stolen in daylight, one lady jogger mugged early am., our home bruglarized for drug needs, two registered sex offenders w/in a mile or so. Currently; many sex offenders less than a mile (daddy bear teeth and claws come out), a family member who robs their own parents, and who has gang affiliations in a city w/in driving distance from my family. Risk of being unarmed, far outweighs the risk of owning and carrying.
    H@H

  15. #15
    Member Array DasBoot's Avatar
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    I'll explain her position (and mine...) when I'm home tonight.
    I'm looking forward to it!
    Why don't you get HER to post so we can get it first hand?
    Seriously! Ask her to join in.
    It will be educational for all of us.....me at least!
    Criminals are not dissuaded by soft words, soft judges or easy laws. They are dissuaded by fear and they are prevented from repeating their crimes by death or by incarceration.

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