CCW Discrimination - Investigative Report

CCW Discrimination - Investigative Report

This is a discussion on CCW Discrimination - Investigative Report within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Shows the problem with "MAY ISSUE" system I guess in Kalifornia if you "donate" to the "proper person", then you can get that CCW .... ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Post CCW Discrimination - Investigative Report

    Shows the problem with "MAY ISSUE" system

    I guess in Kalifornia if you "donate" to the "proper person", then you can get that CCW .... ?

    http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/587425.html

    Investigative Report: Sheriff donors got gun permits
    As Lou Blanas faces federal suit, a review finds some convicts also were granted papers in his term.

    Blanas dismissed those allegations in an October affidavit filed in the federal lawsuit, saying, "I never approved … the issuance of a CCW (concealed carry weapons) permit to any individual based upon their contribution to my … political campaign, or due to any personal, financial or familial relationship," he said in an October declaration.

    In the declaration, he pointed out that he issued 229 permits to noncontributors and he produced affidavits from 10 friends who said Blanas had refused to grant them a permit.

    Blanas' department, like other local law enforcement agencies in California, had broad latitude in issuing permits. The state rules out only felons and those convicted of a list of other violent and gun-related crimes. Beyond that, the permits are to be reserved for people of "good moral character" with a legitimate reason for carrying a loaded firearm.

    In Sacramento County, a committee of three sheriff's lieutenants and captains meets quarterly to rule on the county's concealed gun permit applications.

    The application states that the department may investigate character or past arrests when deciding whether to grant a permit and instructs applicants to disclose not just arrests, but involvement in violent incidents or acrimonious civil lawsuits as well as any domestic violence accusations.

    Approved applicants undergo a criminal background check by the state Department of Justice. Those denied may appeal to a single, high-ranking sheriff's official, usually a chief deputy.

    A domestic violence arrest

    It is not clear from the sheriff's file on North Highlands resident Edward C. Bisbee's application – for a concealed weapon permit approved Aug. 22, 2006 – whether deputies investigated what led to Bisbee's 2002 arrest for domestic violence.

    In the application, Bisbee, a bounty hunter, said he needed a permit because people he had taken into custody later confronted him.

    "I've seen them when I have my kids with me," Bisbee told The Bee.

    A few years earlier, it was Bisbee who was accused of being dangerous. In 2001 and 2002, his then-wife filed two requests for domestic violence restraining orders against him, saying Bisbee was obsessive and terrorizing.

    "He has access to guns and is able to shot (sic) one at any time," wrote the woman, who is not being named because of her allegations of abuse. "I am extremely scared for my life."

    In her 2002 request, Bisbee's then-wife said that on April 10 that year he had kicked open the door and dragged her into the front yard, picking her up and throwing her onto her son's battery-operated Jeep.

    Bisbee was arrested following the incident, but the district attorney dropped domestic violence charges against him in June 2002. Bisbee told The Bee that neighbors spoke to investigators on his behalf.

    His ex-wife stated in court documents that she withdrew her bids for restraining orders when Bisbee promised to change.

    Bisbee told The Bee he was "up front with everything," noting that in his application he cited the 2002 arrest and one in 2004 for driving drunk.

    Gun found in car

    Others were less forthcoming, sometimes failing to disclose past brushes with the law, even when they involved guns.

    George Umberger left his Camaro idling on Greenback Lane when he went to chase a dog in November 1997, according to Superior Court documents. When a CHP officer went to move the car, he found Umberger's loaded .38-caliber Taurus tucked between the seats – a gun for which Umberger had no concealed weapon permit.

    The officer arrested the pawnbroker, who pleaded no contest to the misdemeanor offense in April 1999.

    Three months later, Umberger's conviction was dismissed after he took a diversion course. Yet, in the section of his 2000 application that asks permit-seekers to list arrests or charges or firearms-related incidents, Umberger marked an "X" beside the "No" – and got his permit.By Christina Jewett and Andrew McIntosh - cjewett@sacbee.com

    Published 12:00 am PST Sunday, December 23, 2007

    The bounty hunter accused of kicking in his wife's door and dragging her outside, the pawnbroker who left a loaded gun tucked between the seats of his unlocked car, the drywall company owner who donated money to the sheriff's campaign and owns a vacation house with him.

    All of these men subsequently received permission from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department to carry a concealed gun.

    As a lawsuit accusing former Sheriff Lou Blanas of favoring campaign contributors in decisions on concealed weapon permits wends its way through federal court, The Bee examined public records on more than 550 permits issued since 1996, all but 37 of them under Blanas' terms as sheriff and undersheriff

    Permit holders included people with past criminal convictions, not always reported on their permit applications, The Bee review found, as well as those with drunken driving arrests, which disqualify applicants in many counties.

    The department's files, however, were in disarray, with documents often incomplete or missing, making a comprehensive review impossible. The department does not track such basic statistics as a percentage of applications approved and denied.

    Shown The Bee's findings, current Sheriff John McGinness, who took office on Blanas' retirement in July 2006, said he plans to clean things up.

    "It's going to be repaired," he said, "because otherwise you're going to have the appearance of inconsistency and a lack of fairness, even if that's not the case."

    Blanas did not respond to repeated requests for an interview about his management of the permit program, including a letter hand-delivered to his home.

    Already, McGinness has begun to limit the number of new permits issued to people outside the law enforcement world. Currently, 255 county residents not in law enforcement are licensed to carry concealed weapons, down from 367 when McGinness took office, state and county records show. An additional 123 deputy district attorneys, judges and police officers also have carry permits.

    Sacramento County has far more concealed weapon permit holders than San Francisco County – which had just eight in 2006 – but a fraction compared with more rural counties like Shasta and Kern, which respectively issued 2,316 and 4,006 permits last year, according to data compiled by the state Department of Justice.

    In its review of Sacramento permit and court files, The Bee found that over the past decade:

    • Blanas collected more than $200,000 in campaign contributions from 70 current or former concealed weapon permit holders and their businesses. McGinness has collected nearly $25,000 from permit holders since he began raising money for his campaign at the start of 2005.

    • The department awarded permits to at least 30 people with convictions for crimes ranging from drunken driving to grand theft to secretly videotaping sexual encounters.

    • At least seven of those 30 applicants – including two contributors – failed to fully disclose past convictions in their applications.

    • Permits were granted to six more people who had been charged with but never convicted of crimes including spousal abuse and brandishing a gun, allegations that can be grounds for denial if police think an applicant showed poor judgment.

    Though not all of the crimes were felonies, where convictions automatically prevent applicants from getting a permit, intentionally failing to report them is itself a felony – a fact detailed in the forms applicants complete.

    McGinness said not everything known by the department is in the files and, he added, deciding who gets permits for concealed weapons can be agonizing.

    "If someone has a fear for their safety and I don't have enough officers in the field," he said, "I'm troubled to say, 'You can't carry a gun.' "

    But McGinness said he also was troubled by evidence of scattershot record-keeping and inadequate scrutiny of applicants' past histories as well as by the applicants' lack of full disclosure.

    "Honesty," he said, "is critical."

    Lawsuit challenges process

    The fairness of concealed weapon permit allocation while Blanas was sheriff is being challenged in a federal lawsuit filed by attorney Gary Gorski. The suit charges the former sheriff with giving preferential treatment to campaign contributors.


  2. #2
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    Its a fact of reality that a "may issue "state often chooses "may not" rather than "may".

    If you don't believe it, just check the may issue states and see how many people have permits.

    As far as I'm concerned, the "May Issue" states may as well be NO Issue states.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #3
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Its a fact of reality that a "may issue "state often chooses "may not" rather than "may".

    If you don't believe it, just check the may issue states and see how many people have permits.

    As far as I'm concerned, the "May Issue" states may as well be NO Issue states.
    I bash Massachusetts a lot, because,

    I live there

    but they are one of the "better" one of the "MAY ISSUE" bias states
    problems in Massachusetts is the draconian laws they have

    You can see much to know about problems in Massachusetts in this post

    If you live outside the 10 major cities in Massachusetts, you are likely to get a CCW with no problem.




    * my first post giving Mass any credit for anything . LOL



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  4. #4
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    I used to live in Fall River.

    The only "permit" I ever saw was my Uncle's, who was a Constable in Somerset.

    If you were'nt a cop, you could pretty well forget it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Ibez,

    Not to de-rail this thread, but what justification do I put on my non-resident permit to ensure it gets approved?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    May issue sucks for the most part.
    Les Baer 45
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  7. #7
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT-Mike View Post
    Ibez,

    Not to de-rail this thread, but what justification do I put on my non-resident permit to ensure it gets approved?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    I'll see if I can locate an out of towner that received the LTC and ask them if they were specific when filling out the application purpose field.

    I've also heard for the purpose field, all you need to put is
    "All Lawful Purposes"

    btw, NR permits are $100 and are valid for only 1 year.


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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    NR Mass permits may be spendy, but they're more likely to get approved as LTC-A ALP than a resident permit - they only go through MSP, not a local police official.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Even after CO approved the CC permits, there were several counties that still only did the friends and family thing. My county in particular, the sheriff only issued to his cronies. My father in law is retired FBI was denied until this particular sheriff was ousted.

    CO had a history in the beginning of disparity between counties. Some issued to every applicant that met the guidelines, others issued less than 1% - friends and family.

    It has gotten much better, but we have a anti governor and the antis are gaining control of the state senate. He (the governor) was told by the Presidential National Convention Committee to keep a low profile until after the Denver Convention. There is rumor running around the extremist 2nd supporters that our CC may very well be stricken down afterwards, although the CO Springs incident may dampen their efforts.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array snakatack's Avatar
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    Far more fun to read than the Sacramento Bee's story are the comments submitted by their readers.
    http://www.sacbee.com/dyn/comments/s...&tie_to=587425

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    I guess in Kalifornia if you "donate" to the "proper person", then you can get that CCW .... ?
    There are plenty of counties in California where obtaining a CHL is simple, despite the mommy-may-I hoops. Carried myself for 10yrs, in Calif. Generally, they're the northerly, more-rural counties, but some of the "big city" ones (ie, Orange County) are relatively pro-gun. The downside is, of course, that it's still mommy-may-I and varies with the virulence of the "anti" mentality of the next Sheriff.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Member Array Huzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    There are plenty of counties in California where obtaining a CHL is simple, despite the mommy-may-I hoops. Carried myself for 10yrs, in Calif. Generally, they're the northerly, more-rural counties, but some of the "big city" ones (ie, Orange County) are relatively pro-gun. The downside is, of course, that it's still mommy-may-I and varies with the virulence of the "anti" mentality of the next Sheriff.
    In California there are counties and there are counties. Sometimes it comes down to half a mile (as to which side of the county border you live on). Yes, to answer the first post: some jurisdictions seem to use it to reward political donors and some use it as it's meant. Is Ca the real issue here? Nope, it's politcs and politicians..... Oh yeah.... and I don't know where is that Kalifornia that you speak of. I think it's an alternate universe place.....

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    WHOOPS! Busted!

    Well, maybe this incident will help any legislation to get "May Issue" changed to "Shall Issue".
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Member Array sharpetop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Even after CO approved the CC permits, there were several counties that still only did the friends and family thing. My county in particular, the sheriff only issued to his cronies. My father in law is retired FBI was denied until this particular sheriff was ousted.

    CO had a history in the beginning of disparity between counties. Some issued to every applicant that met the guidelines, others issued less than 1% - friends and family.

    It has gotten much better, but we have a anti governor and the antis are gaining control of the state senate. He (the governor) was told by the Presidential National Convention Committee to keep a low profile until after the Denver Convention. There is rumor running around the extremist 2nd supporters that our CC may very well be stricken down afterwards, although the CO Springs incident may dampen their efforts.
    This is one reason I left Colorado in 1985. I saw the handwriting on the wall with all the East and West coast liberals infiltrating a great place to live, bringing their political beliefs with them.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    May Issue = Probably won't issue 99.9% of the time.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

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