Condition 2

This is a discussion on Condition 2 within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm new to concealed carry and have to tell you, condition 1 seems scarry when I am holstering my 1911 style CDP. I have carried ...

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Thread: Condition 2

  1. #1
    Member Array golfer's Avatar
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    Condition 2

    I'm new to concealed carry and have to tell you, condition 1 seems scarry when I am holstering my 1911 style CDP.
    I have carried OWB while hunting nad on occasions but always with Condition 2 [hammer on half cock, round in chamber] and it doesn't take much to go to condition one.
    Thought I might review with you guys and see if others do the same or I am just being overly cautious.
    Seems, the last person I want to shoot is me.
    Best wishes.

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  3. #2
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    I am against cond. 2 . Having to cock the gun risks a hammer drop if your thumb slips. Also is your grip a good one while cocking? You cannot have the safety on with the hammer down.
    I would suggest carrying the gun around empty in the house for a few days and trying cond 1carry. I think you will find it better in the long run.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  4. #3
    Member Array 1911shooter's Avatar
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    If you are uncomfortable with condition 1 (cocked and locked) then i would consider a different pistol. the 1911 system is one that needs to be carried in condition 1, the safty will not come off and you will not shoot your self if it does the trigger wont move unless you grip the grip safty and pull the trigger. there is no reason to be scared of condition 1, practice with it and get some training and condition 1 will be as safe if not safer then any other type of action you will carry.
    When the dust settles only the prepared will survive.

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  5. #4
    JD
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    That's a bad idea in my book, you don't have much hammer on a CDP, and with the series II, if I recall correctly, you can still drop the hammer from half cock with the thumb safety down and grip safety inactive (pressed in to fire), as stated, there isn't much hammer, and in order for ME to cock the hammer one handed, I have to comprimise my grip, that's also not good, you want a good firm grip on your gun the moment it clears leather.

    As the hammer can fall from the half cock, what happens if you draw, and either miss the hammer or just "forget" to cock the hammer and you fire and get a click instead of a bang?

    With the thumb safety on, and the grip safety active, THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE GUN TO GO OFF (within reason if your gun gets sucked into a MRI machine it could go bang)

    Carry the gun empty AT HOME in condition 1 and see if you can make the hammer fall accidently, I'm betting you can't.

    If it really bothers you that much, either A: Get a non C&L gun, or get a Para LDA which is DAO and is carried hammer down.

  6. #5
    Member Array Charleton's Avatar
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    If your weapon is in good shape mechanically and you are following good handling practices, condition one is the safest way to go -- remember the point of the exercise is to be able to use it, and if you have to use it, you're going to want it fast.

    I've carried condition one for years, first with a 1911 and now with a Glock. Any other way seems unnatural.

    Gene.
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  7. #6
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    I am against cond. 2 . Having to cock the gun risks a hammer drop if your thumb slips. Also is your grip a good one while cocking? You cannot have the safety on with the hammer down.
    I agree. Just as bad (maybe worse) is trying to move fr cond 1 back to cond 2. Not for me.

    Remember......a 1911 will only go bang if you pull the trigger. If you don't want it to go bang, keep your finger off the trigger!

  8. #7
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    Half-cock is not intended as a manual safety.

    Half-cock exists only as a last-ditch stopping point for a hammer that is falling due to mechanical failure.

    Using the "half-cock" as a safety

    The half-cock notch on the M1911 is really intended as a "fail-safe" and is not recommended as a safety. However, it has been used as a mode of carry. From Dale Ireland comes this interesting piece of service history from WWII:

    When the hammer is pulled back just a few millimeters it "half cocks" and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun [on genuine mil-spec G.I. pistols]. I imagine this is an unsafe and not a recommended safety position. The reason I bring it up however is that it was a commonly used position especially by left-handers in WWII. My father carried his 1911 (not A1) to Enewitok, Leyte, first wave at Luzon, the battle inside Intramuros, and until he was finally shot near Ipo dam. He tells me that he regularly used the half cocked safety position especially at night and patrolling because bringing the weapon to the full cocked position from the half cocked created much less noise and he was left handed so he couldn't use the thumb safety effectively. He said using the half cocked position was all about noise reduction for lefties while maintaining a small amount of safety that could quickly be released.

    Again, the half-cock is intended as a fail-safe in the event that the sear hooks were to fail, and it is not recommended as a mode of carry. It should also be noted that on guns with "Series 80" type hammers, the hammer will fall from half-cock when the trigger is pulled. This would include guns from Springfield Armory and modern production Colts. But, if you happen to be a south paw and find yourself in the jungle with a G.I. M1911A1 and surrounded by enemy troops, the half-cock might be an option.

    http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm
    Aside from this, getting from full cock to half cock with a loaded chamber requires you to pull the trigger and lower the hammer - this is a prime setup for an ND.

    Matt
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  9. #8
    Member Array Danger Mouse's Avatar
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    Lets examine this.
    The first pull on a trigger is usually hard. This is a failsafe to ensure that you intend on pulling that trigger. carrying in the locked and cocked mode means that the trigger pull is now light. By carrying in condition 1 we bypass the safety built into the trigger. Do not get me wrong as I carry CON1 with the safety on. I practiced so much drawing and releasing the safety then placing the index finger on the slide untill locked on target, then dropping the finger to the trigger that it is second nature to me. I even find I relock the safety when I holster without thinking about it. So either way you chose to carry is fine, just practice the way you carry untill its built into the muscle memory, and make sure that the gun you carry can be carried in that condition safely.
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  10. #9
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    It only looks scary in Condition 1. Condition 2 has only one safety engaged and it's not the one that blocks the sear. A 1911 is actually considerable more likely to unintentionally discharge from Condition 2 than Condition 1, especially at half cock. One bump to the hammer and it's going to come down on the firing pin which will fire a round. Take a close look at your pistol someday when you have it detail stripped, specifically the thumb safety. When that sucker is engaged, that hammer is NOT coming down (as long as it's fitted right).
    - Kurt
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  11. #10
    Member Array golfer's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replys, let me give just a little more info.
    I will be carrying IWB. I am very comfortable with the 1911 platform and own four now with several thousands of rounds through the tube.
    I am not uncomfortable with condition 1 in OWB and have used that for IPSIC and other competition and safety control is also not an issue.
    The real problem may be that I have never carried concealed before.
    I have worked with con 2 a little and find the hammer is easy to cock prior to the draw or immediatly after the draw with the weak hand wiping the hammer back.
    I am not concerned about the hammer falling on a short strock and going off.
    The reason I like condition 2 instead of hammer all the way down is it is much easier to pull to full cock from this position.
    For some reason I am kind of anal about carrying in Con 1, IWB.
    Thanks again.

  12. #11
    Member Array DrBart2's Avatar
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    While in the Navy (many, many moons ago) I have seen (several times) a 1911 in condition 1 dropped on a steel deck. I actually witnessed one bounce down a steel ladder in condition 1. None of them discharged. As long as the trigger system has not been tampered with by someone who is not a professional gunsmith, I would always carry in condition 1.

  13. #12
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    Consider that in a defensive situation you may need one hand to hold a attacker back, block a strike, ect. Why is carry any different than competition for cond. of carry?
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  14. #13
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    Yeah, I guess I'm not seeing how moving the gun and holster a half inch closer to your body changes the safety of the firearm... IMO, condition 2 is the worst possible condition - it mandates the lowering of a cocked and off safe hammer manually onto a live round, prevents the manual safety from being engaged, AND slows you down. I think chamber empty carry would be better - if you're slowing yourself down for "safety," you might as well get some safety benefit out of the deal...

    Again, OMO as a non-1911 carrier, but there it is.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #14
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    I carry my Kimbers C&L...that's what the 1911 is designed to do...safe, secure, and when trouble jumps out at you, muscle memory will do the rest.

    Stay armed...stay C&L...stay safe!
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  16. #15
    Member Array althemean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Half-cock is not intended as a manual safety.

    Half-cock exists only as a last-ditch stopping point for a hammer that is falling due to mechanical failure.



    Aside from this, getting from full cock to half cock with a loaded chamber requires you to pull the trigger and lower the hammer - this is a prime setup for an ND.

    Matt
    End of discussion.

    BTW I carry a Springy Loaded 1911 IWB in cond 1. The only time I remove the weapon from my appendix carry ( I had an appendectomy..can I still call it appendix carry??) pos is when driving. A full size gun like that touching your junk is uncomfortable.

    I also seem to remember a thread on here about a gentleman's father who had an AD with a 1911 cond 2 while hostering. It seems when he snapped the thumbreak on his holster it was enough pressure to hit the firing pin, thus discharging the round (into himself) I think that he was trying to snap the thumbreak under the hammer..or something along those lines.

    Search 1911 condition and I think it will come up.

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