CCW at Store With Post Office Inside.

CCW at Store With Post Office Inside.

This is a discussion on CCW at Store With Post Office Inside. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know that concealed carry at the Post Office is illegal. So here is the situation: The grocery store across the street from my place ...

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Thread: CCW at Store With Post Office Inside.

  1. #1
    Member Array AMH's Avatar
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    CCW at Store With Post Office Inside.

    I know that concealed carry at the Post Office is illegal.

    So here is the situation: The grocery store across the street from my place does not have a no-CCW sign. The grocery store has a Post Office inside it that is not sectioned off by walls or doors. It just has its own little section off in the corner.

    If I am only grocery shopping I carry and avoid the Post Office area. If I need to use the Post Office then I leave my sidearm in the car.

    Is what I am doing legal? Should I not carry in the grocery store because it has a Post Office in it?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    A drugstore in my town has one of these setups, too.

    I think that unless the "mini post office" in your store has No CCW signs posted, you're fine. I think that law only applies in an actual post office building.
    You could call them (anonymously) and ask...

    My opinion? Concealed is concealed

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    Pete Zaria.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Rossman's Avatar
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    It is not illegal in California unless I am mistaken

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    There is some great debate (and doubt) as to whether or not a Post Office is a Federal Building and therefore subject to no carry.

  5. #5
    Member Array AMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    There is some great debate (and doubt) as to whether or not a Post Office is a Federal Building and therefore subject to no carry.
    On the counter of the Post Office front desk there is a no-CCW sign, but nothing on the front door of the grocery store.

    Additionally, the store keeps its tobacco in the Post Office. You have to go to the Post Office to get a pack of Camels. Strange.
    Join the NRA!
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It is about keeping the government in check. This requires that the citizenry is well armed and at all times has immediate access to arms.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    My PO is clearly posted with a No-Carry sign that says "federal building". HOWEVER...a new law in Arizona requires government buildings to supply secure lockers for law abiding citizens. The Post Office doesn't have any. Some will say they're not a "government office". I asked the head dude, and he had no idea what I was talking about.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    AZ Husker Wrote: My PO is clearly posted with a No-Carry sign that says "federal building". HOWEVER...a new law in Arizona requires government buildings to supply secure lockers for law abiding citizens.
    That's interesting. I like it! At least better.

    The Post Office doesn't have any. Some will say they're not a "government office". I asked the head dude, and he had no idea what I was talking about.
    They usually don't and that is how it all starts.

    There is also a great debate whether a post office is off limits or not in our state, no one seems to have an exact answer for that one either way. The thing is, I am not interested in becoming the first poster child and find out so I do all of my post office stuff online and have them come pick up, they do that now like ups and fed-ex so no need to go in anymore.

    As to your question as if it's legal while in a grocery store or not, this is also probably one of those gray areas but to me the main structure is the grocery store and not a post office, the post office leases or shares the property so I do not see how anything could be inforced with that. But I am not familier with your state ccw laws to know for sure and I would bet an AK-47 that it still fall's in that gray area and one will never know the real answer until someone offers themselves up as the poster child. They can charge you with anything, whether it will stick is another matter but the cost of fighting it could be expensive and disruptive to your life and career. Not sure it's worth that or not.


    Ti
    Last edited by Ti Carry; January 5th, 2008 at 12:17 AM.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    It is not illegal. No federal property and no federal employees. A private sub contractor who can only provide certain services.
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  9. #9
    Member Array glock19xdsc's Avatar
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    MNBurl is correct.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMH View Post
    On the counter of the Post Office front desk there is a no-CCW sign, but nothing on the front door of the grocery store.
    I imagine you will need to review your states CW laws to see if that posting carry's any weight of law in your state. It would not here in SC. Does not meet our posting requirement. And I seriously doubt it's a Federal Building.
    The problem with this whole debate is that even though they are no longer "federal buildings" (and so not forbidden under that portion of law) there is another law, 39 CFR 232.1, that states (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    This is under the "conduct" portion of that regulation.

    And so then the debate comes to what they mean by "official purpose" and whether or not that was intended to restrict permitted individuals or not.

    Thats where the debate gets interesting...

    Then later on in that CFR section is says this: (2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
    control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.


    Is that the out for Concealed Carry Permit? State law allowing it? The debate is there I think...

    There is also a section giving them the right to search packages and personal items brought in:

    (a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

    (b) Inspection, recording presence. (1) Purses, briefcases, and other containers brought into, while on, or being removed from the property are subject to inspection. However, items brought directly to a postal facility's customer mailing acceptance area and deposited in the mail are not subject to inspection, except as provided by section 274 of the Administrative Support Manual. A person arrested for violation of this section may be searched incident to that arrest.

    (2) Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and
    their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse to consent to the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be implied. A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by the person may accompany an arrest.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Post Office front desk there is a no-CCW sign,
    Now there is a good debate as to if carry is okay in a post office. Notice that the post office no-gun sign cites federal laws. It's worth reading the laws.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    ... if it cites the correct law... not the old Federal Building law... they no longer fall under that particular one.

    I do know its not posted as the new CFR says to do it. That is to prominently post ALL the rules in one central location. And it does not sound like it meets any State Law posting that I know of. I doubt that particular sign he is describing meets either the Postal Service requirement nor the state.

    The new CFR clearly states the following in the law:

    (4) A copy of the rules of this section governing conduct on postal property, including the rules of this paragraph appropriately highlighted, shall be posted in prominent locations at the public
    entrances to postal property...


    However... that doesn't meet the guidelines of many states requirements of posting no concealed carry. And there is an indication, within that same CFR that they may be supposed to. Maybe... as I read it that way in some respects.

    You see... its not all so clear and you can probably see where the debate and confusion is coming from. I am still undecided on it either way.

  13. #13
    New Member Array Eurekaman's Avatar
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    Unless there are metal detectors installed, how would they know?

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNBurl View Post
    It is not illegal. No federal property and no federal employees. A private sub contractor who can only provide certain services.
    That is exactly correct. My mother had one of these satellite offices in her real estate office. The USPS rents space and pays a fee to the building owner who hires their own people. It's all contract, no government employees. But I think that area of the building had to follow the USPS regulations.

    Editted to add:
    The building that used to house the local satellite office before my mother did was the local gun shop.

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNBurl View Post
    It is not illegal. No federal property and no federal employees. A private sub contractor who can only provide certain services.
    Ditto

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