Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry

Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry

This is a discussion on Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's say, hypothetically, you have to travel. The state you are going to allows you to carry with your current permit. You decide to take ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,972

    Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry

    Let's say, hypothetically, you have to travel. The state you are going to allows you to carry with your current permit. You decide to take Amtrak. And let's say you decide to carry on the train. (I am NOT advocating anything illegal, just that you make a decision to do it.)

    On the trip, the SHTF and a BG decides to do something dastardly like open fire on some innocent people. Perhaps he is even a terrorist. You are in a position to draw and shoot him before he can do any more damage.

    Are you the good guy or are you going to be in trouble?


  2. #2
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,999
    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post

    Are you the good guy or are you going to be in trouble?
    Both. But being the good guy is likely to help out with being the bad guy. I dont think I could stand myself if I could have safely ended such a thing and didnt because I was afraid of getting in trouble.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,979
    You're danged if you do and danged if you dont.

    Since you're danged anyway,you might as well be danged for trying...




    hey,Six, now theres a sig line right there...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  4. #4
    Member Array blueridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    122
    Rule #4 would certainly apply here:

    Know your target and what is beyond.
    Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    750
    Let's just say its not on Amtrak,but on the road somewhere(like NJ for instance). My guess is if you just happen to be the hero and save a bunch of people from a massacre-they will NOT prosecute you,simply because that's just the publicity that state does not want. I say they'll quietly tell you to move along(after checking your background out). I think a number of states will allow for self defense,even if you're not licensed to carry(silly!).
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,379
    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    ... Amtrak ... let's say you decide to carry on the train.

    (I am NOT advocating anything illegal, just that you make a decision to do it.)
    You may not be advocating it, but that scenario is exactly that.

    On the trip, the SHTF and a BG decides to do something dastardly like open fire on some innocent people. You are in a position to draw and shoot him before he can do any more damage.
    You are the good guy. You have stopped a violent and deadly crime. And I'd be willing to bet that you'd face federal weapons charges due to having prima facie evidence of having carried concealed in a federally-prohibited location, despite any good sam action you thought you were doing. The government will almost certainly see it otherwise.

    Soon, perhaps in the next few years, we may see a turnaround of this crazy minefield of stupendously idiotic rules and regs that serve to deny the innocent the ability to survive such encounters. Until then, you're a felon for life, if you get the scat end of the stick.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    The only reason to carry the gun on you (rather than lock it in the luggage) is to have it available if you need it. If you end up needing it and don't use it, solely because of the carry circumstances, then why did you carry it in the first place?

    You will be busted for possession if you shouldn't have been carrying. Theoretically that should have no effect whatsoever on whether the shooting itself is justifiable. I expect you'll be in worse civil trouble that you would have ben if the carry had been legal.

    On a related note, are there any wonky carry rules specific to Amtrak? Or is it just up to state/local jurisdiction where you travel?

  8. #8
    New Member Array dp509's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3

    The Law

    Is it illegal to carry on a train?

  9. #9
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,076
    Amtrak rules




    All travel on, and transactions with, Amtrak is governed by the laws of the District of Columbia, United States of America, without regards to its principles of conflicts of law. You agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of any State or Federal court located in the District of Columbia, United States of America, and waive any jurisdictional, venue or inconvenient forum objections to such courts.

    If I read this right Washington, DC laws apply.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050
    From the Amtrak website.

    Prohibited Items

    The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:

    *
    Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
    *
    Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
    *
    Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
    *
    Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
    *
    Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
    *
    Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
    *
    Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
    *
    Animals (except service animals).
    *
    Oversized and/or overweight items.

    Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.
    In addition to what rocky posted that all laws of D.C. apply and you agree to have any and all disputes and or charges resolved in the DC courts...My research shows that Amtrak Police are CALEA certified, also are eligible to attend FLETC and Amtrak enters into agreements with state level and federal level police agencies. They are treated as LEOs for the purpose of LEOSA.

    What is unclear is what happens to you if you violate their baggage policy. I cannot find where it is a violation of law. You would probably be detained by the Amtrak Police who operate cooperatively with the FBI for crimes on trains. You may be banned from ever riding the train again. It may be worse.

    I can't determine and quite honestly Google is as much your friend as mine. So start searching and find out. I have no need or use for Amtrak as they have made it clear with their baggage policy that they do not want my money. Besides I can almost always fly cheaper than the train and in less time as well.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,155
    CCW on Amtrak is a no no.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

  12. #12
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050
    Looks like I stumbled on the answer.

    http://handgunlaw.us/documents/FedRestrict.pdf

    You may not carry on Amtrak and it is against the law according to the code cite at the above link. So that ends any hypothetical about it. You will be arrested and you will go to jail, whether you are the good guy or not. It would seem only jury nullification would prevent it.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    Wow. That's even worse than I thought. I mean, I figured with Amtrak being a federally funded monopoly, there'd be something screwy...but not as screwy as carrying the asinine D.C. laws with the train!!!

  14. #14
    Member Array turbo93's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    tidewater VA
    Posts
    152
    interesting it does not say anything about the stations or parking lot. ( I had to pick up someone from Amtrak recently and did not think it was prohibited so I carried)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Wow. That's even worse than I thought. I mean, I figured with Amtrak being a federally funded monopoly, there'd be something screwy...but not as screwy as carrying the asinine D.C. laws with the train!!!
    I really am not suprised, They jailed LEO officers (Border Patrol) for shooting at a mexican drug runner! I don't think that a citizen would fare any better! JMO
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Possible new rules for Amtrak soon
    By wedoada in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: April 27th, 2009, 09:21 PM
  2. Amtrak Concealed Carry Question
    By Guvn3r in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: August 13th, 2007, 08:35 PM
  3. Can You Carry On Amtrak?
    By BonoVox in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: May 7th, 2007, 02:16 AM

Search tags for this page

against the law to carry on amtrak
,
amtrak
,

amtrak carry on rules

,

amtrak chl

,

amtrak concealed carry

,
amtrak concealed carry policy
,
amtrak police off duty carry nj
,
can off duty police carry a firearm on amtrak?
,
chl amtrak
,
conceal carry on portland amtrak
,
is carrying on amtrak against the law
,

off duty gun carry on amtrak

,
oversized carry on amtrak
,
police off-duty carry policy amtrak
,
requirements amtrak to carry gun
Click on a term to search for related topics.