This is a discussion on Another hypothetical - Amtrak Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's say, hypothetically, you have to travel. The state you are going to allows you to carry with your current permit. You decide to take ...
Let's say, hypothetically, you have to travel. The state you are going to allows you to carry with your current permit. You decide to take Amtrak. And let's say you decide to carry on the train. (I am NOT advocating anything illegal, just that you make a decision to do it.)
On the trip, the SHTF and a BG decides to do something dastardly like open fire on some innocent people. Perhaps he is even a terrorist. You are in a position to draw and shoot him before he can do any more damage.
Are you the good guy or are you going to be in trouble?
You're danged if you do and danged if you dont.
Since you're danged anyway,you might as well be danged for trying...
hey,Six, now theres a sig line right there...
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AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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Rule #4 would certainly apply here:
Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.
Let's just say its not on Amtrak,but on the road somewhere(like NJ for instance). My guess is if you just happen to be the hero and save a bunch of people from a massacre-they will NOT prosecute you,simply because that's just the publicity that state does not want. I say they'll quietly tell you to move along(after checking your background out). I think a number of states will allow for self defense,even if you're not licensed to carry(silly!).
"The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
Nunn v. State GA 1848
You are the good guy. You have stopped a violent and deadly crime. And I'd be willing to bet that you'd face federal weapons charges due to having prima facie evidence of having carried concealed in a federally-prohibited location, despite any good sam action you thought you were doing. The government will almost certainly see it otherwise.On the trip, the SHTF and a BG decides to do something dastardly like open fire on some innocent people. You are in a position to draw and shoot him before he can do any more damage.
Soon, perhaps in the next few years, we may see a turnaround of this crazy minefield of stupendously idiotic rules and regs that serve to deny the innocent the ability to survive such encounters. Until then, you're a felon for life, if you get the scat end of the stick.
The only reason to carry the gun on you (rather than lock it in the luggage) is to have it available if you need it. If you end up needing it and don't use it, solely because of the carry circumstances, then why did you carry it in the first place?
You will be busted for possession if you shouldn't have been carrying. Theoretically that should have no effect whatsoever on whether the shooting itself is justifiable. I expect you'll be in worse civil trouble that you would have ben if the carry had been legal.
On a related note, are there any wonky carry rules specific to Amtrak? Or is it just up to state/local jurisdiction where you travel?
Is it illegal to carry on a train?
All travel on, and transactions with, Amtrak is governed by the laws of the District of Columbia, United States of America, without regards to its principles of conflicts of law. You agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of any State or Federal court located in the District of Columbia, United States of America, and waive any jurisdictional, venue or inconvenient forum objections to such courts.
If I read this right Washington, DC laws apply.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
From the Amtrak website.
In addition to what rocky posted that all laws of D.C. apply and you agree to have any and all disputes and or charges resolved in the DC courts...My research shows that Amtrak Police are CALEA certified, also are eligible to attend FLETC and Amtrak enters into agreements with state level and federal level police agencies. They are treated as LEOs for the purpose of LEOSA.Prohibited Items
The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:
Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
Animals (except service animals).
Oversized and/or overweight items.
Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.
What is unclear is what happens to you if you violate their baggage policy. I cannot find where it is a violation of law. You would probably be detained by the Amtrak Police who operate cooperatively with the FBI for crimes on trains. You may be banned from ever riding the train again. It may be worse.
I can't determine and quite honestly Google is as much your friend as mine. So start searching and find out. I have no need or use for Amtrak as they have made it clear with their baggage policy that they do not want my money. Besides I can almost always fly cheaper than the train and in less time as well.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
CCW on Amtrak is a no no.
Gun control is hitting what you aim at
Looks like I stumbled on the answer.
You may not carry on Amtrak and it is against the law according to the code cite at the above link. So that ends any hypothetical about it. You will be arrested and you will go to jail, whether you are the good guy or not. It would seem only jury nullification would prevent it.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
Wow. That's even worse than I thought. I mean, I figured with Amtrak being a federally funded monopoly, there'd be something screwy...but not as screwy as carrying the asinine D.C. laws with the train!!!
interesting it does not say anything about the stations or parking lot. ( I had to pick up someone from Amtrak recently and did not think it was prohibited so I carried)
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
love and thanks of man and woman."
-- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)