Greg Rotz article today

Greg Rotz article today

This is a discussion on Greg Rotz article today within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Agian front and center of the local paper today. http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_7917373 Greg Rotz, a Chambersburg man who wore his handgun to a polling place on Election ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Greg Rotz article today

    Agian front and center of the local paper today.

    http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_7917373

    Greg Rotz, a Chambersburg man who wore his handgun to a polling place on Election Day, got his gun permit back Tuesday in Franklin County Court.
    "The court finds he did not violate any law," President Judge John R. Walker said. "His permit should be returned to him as soon as possible."

    In front of the judge, county sheriff's solicitor Patrick Redding took Rotz's permit to carry a concealed weapon from the file and handed it to Rotz's attorney Steve Rice, who presented it to Rotz. Nearly all of the 60 people in the courtroom applauded.

    Minutes later Rotz retrieved his handgun from a nearby vehicle and wore it at his side as his supporters applauded outside the courthouse. Some came from five hours away. Many carried their firearms openly, as permitted by Pennsylvania law.

    Sheriff Dane Anthony said about 25 people checked their guns with his office as they walked into the courthouse.

    "There were no problems. There were no questions," Anthony said. "Everyone was cooperative."

    Gun rights advocates had discussed Rotz's plight on several Internet forums and raised about $3,000 toward Rotz's legal fees.

    In November, then-Sheriff Robert Wollyung revoked Rotz's permit to carry a concealed weapon after Rotz wore it openly to the New Franklin polling place on Nov. 6. Rotz exchanged words with Constable Gerald Speilman.

    The constable had asked Rotz to secure the gun in his vehicle and Rotz would not. Rotz appealed the revocation.

    "I understand not everyone agrees with me philosophically," Rotz said after the hearing. "But when you're in law enforcement, you can't use your office to impose personal opinion. I expected to prevail, but I know there are no guarantees."
    Because Walker ruled without taking testimony, the law was clear on the issue, Rotz said.

    Walker made his ruling after meeting with the two attorneys for about 15 minutes "to save a long hearing." The entire hearing lasted a half hour.

    Walker said that if someone is convicted of a crime, his or her license should be revoked. That was not the case here.

    "Why are we wasting time? Order in the court," Walker said, both sentences in the same breath.

    Walker said people cannot take firearms into schools or a courthouse, then asked the attorneys if they had found any laws prohibiting guns in a polling place.

    "I have found absolutely nothing saying you can't carry a firearm into a polling place," Redding said.

    Walker said Rotz did not need a permit to open carry, but he would "personally contact" his legislator about firearms in polling places.

    "If we have people walking around polling places with guns, it starts looking like a Third World country, Venezuela or something," Walker said.

    The remark did not sit well with Rotz supporters after the hearing.

    "I don't agree with the idea," said Tom Rowe, a Rotz supporter from McKees Rocks. "I agree with the process."

    Those attending, however, were impressed with Walker's no-nonsense command from the bench. They came down strongly on the side of Walker's decision to return Rotz's permit:

    - "I think that's the decision that should have been made from the start," said Sam Myers of Newville.

    - "It's a win-win for everybody, especially law-abiding gun owners in Pennsylvania," said Douglas Boldt, an Erie man and vice president of the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association. "We are pleased with the judicial decision."

    - "The young man had his license to carry revoked for one man's opinion and not the law," said Jinks Heistand of Cumberland County. "We're a land of laws. We're looking for sheriffs and police officers who know the laws and enforce them. We want people to understand the law, enforce the law and not their opinions. That's a perfect world."

    - "It gives us clarification on how a sheriff can revoke a concealed permit," said Rob Conrad of West Scranton.

    - "(Rotz) should have been cited if something was wrong, not have his license revoked," said Ted Hughes of West Pittston. "A lot of Pennsylvanians have to stand together to do this and protect our rights."

    - "I want to see what laws were broken," Bill Shriver of Chambersburg said before the decision. "I don't understand why we're here."

    - "It's a shame we live in a free society and elected officers are willing to trample out rights," said Theodore Deardroff of Shippensburg.

    - "I find it complete insanity that Greg was doing something completely legal and they revoked his right to carry," Rowe said.

    - "(Rotz) was wrongfully accused of an act which most people don't realize is perfectly legal," said Aaron Cool of Waynesboro. "There's a lot of misinformation floating around."

    - "The poor guy (Rotz) was doing what he was able to do," said Dan Dorman of Greencastle, who openly carried his weapon Tuesday in support of Rotz. "The Second Amendment is the only one that guarantees the others."


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Pennsylvania is like that. I love it here!

    Fitch

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    Good ruling. While I disagree with the judges statement regarding his desire to disarm people at polling places, at least he knows that that is his opinion, and not the law. He is therefore going to try to change the law (which is dumb, IMO, but it's the right way to go about things) rather than enforce his opinion on Mr. Rotz. It's nice to see the judiciary do the right thing...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Sorry he had to go through that but darn glad to see it end in his favor!!
    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Slap. As it should be.

    But then, while he perhaps should have been detained if there was a question, and certainly the issue should have been examined if it were truly believed it was illegal, there is no way the revocation should EVER have occurred if no PROOF existed. Arbitrary enforcement of opinion is ridiculous and was, nicely, seen for being exactly that.

    Now, as for the legal fees, costs of time lost, costs of headaches/pain in dealing with the lunacy ... sounds to me like an iron-clad case for a little ~$5-10K+ lawsuit for recompense in an obviously ill-conceived harassment of a citizen with no legal basis.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #6
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    "If we have people walking around polling places with guns, it starts looking like a Third World country, Venezuela or something," Walker said.
    Funny he said that. The quickest way to go to a Military jail in Venezuela is to have any kind of weapon in a polling place.

    The only people allowed to have guns at a polling station is the government.


    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Funny he said that. The quickest way to go to a Military jail in Venezuela is to have any kind of weapon in a polling place.

    The only people allowed to have guns at a polling station is the government.


    What a great point you make! Along the same lines I saw an exerp from an Obama speech where he said we can have peace if we learn to trust each other ... how can he say that when he won't trust me with my gun?

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    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    Glad to see everything worked out well. +1 to ccw9mm's idea for compensation.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    -Herbert Spencer

    NRA Life Member

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    Maybe I should organize an open carry demonstration in our area (N Huntingdon, PA). Even the guys at the gun shops are deathly afraid to open carry because of supposed "brandishing laws".

    I'm going to contact my representative and tell him if anything looking like a bill to prevent open carry at anywhere shows up on his desk he better shoot it down.

    Anyone know what this case would be called? Rotz v. Chambersburg?
    Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Article 1, Section 21:
    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed and correct Miggy, upon seeing that Venezuela statement my first thought was "He has no clue what he's talking about and no idea how dumb he sounds".
    Agreed as well Lance in regard to Obama and his hollow words.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #11
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    Wow! There's so many things to comment on with this event! But, it was great news!
    Thanks for the link. Thanks to Judge Walker. Thanks to Greg Rotz for standing his ground.
    Well done.

  12. #12
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    A war is won, one battle at a time!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  13. #13
    Member Array uflnuceng's Avatar
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    Just wrote my Rep (Casorio-D) and my Senator (Regola-R) regarding this issue.

    Maybe I should open carry to my polling station in April for the primaries...
    Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Article 1, Section 21:
    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

  14. #14
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Good ruling. While I disagree with the judges statement regarding his desire to disarm people at polling places, at least he knows that that is his opinion, and not the law. He is therefore going to try to change the law (which is dumb, IMO, but it's the right way to go about things) rather than enforce his opinion on Mr. Rotz. It's nice to see the judiciary do the right thing...
    I have to disagree. A polling place is the one place I don't think guns should be allowed. There should never, ever, never ever, be any hint of intimidation in the election process.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    I have to disagree. A polling place is the one place I don't think guns should be allowed. There should never, ever, never ever, be any hint of intimidation in the election process.
    A reasonable thought. However, concealed is concealed, right?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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