I was told I was trespassing

This is a discussion on I was told I was trespassing within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in Raleigh NC, where I recently bought another cell phone. NC is an open carry State and the AT&T Store I was in ...

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Thread: I was told I was trespassing

  1. #1
    Member Array Hondov65's Avatar
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    Question I was told I was trespassing

    I live in Raleigh NC, where I recently bought another cell phone. NC is an open carry State and the AT&T Store I was in is not posted. I have a CCL and was carrying at the time of the incident. While reaching for my wallet I exposed my weapon to the represenative accidentaly. She said I've never been this close to a gun before. I went back yesterday for advice on my phone I was waited on by the head lady she told me her rep got flustered after I left. The sight of my weapon bothered her, before I could apoligise, she informed me that the Police were called after I left and an report was filed I was was under an order of trespass and I was no longer welcome in that particular office. My question is will this interfere with my renewal of my permit? Will I get a vist from local PD? Is my now valid permit in Jeopardy?
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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Well there are two sides to every story. This lady obviously a needs to wake up to the real world. I would call the local police dept. and explain who you are and what happened. See if you can talk to the LEO who took the case at the store and give them your side of the story. If you're within the law, have a CCL and there was no posted sign I don't see an issue in the future.

  4. #3
    Member Array CharlieMike's Avatar
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    From North Carolina Rifle and Pistol Association (http://www.ncrpa.org/):

    Q: I don't want to get a Concealed Handgun Permit; I just want to carry a gun openly in a holster. Is this legal?

    A: In North Carolina there is no State law specifically prohibiting the open carry of firearms. Under the theory that if it isn't specifically prohibited it's not illegal, open carry is possible. There are some glaring exceptions to this. They are:

    1. Private property owners and businesses can post "no guns."
    2. Firearms are strictly prohibited on state-owned property, except rest areas and state lands where hunting is permitted.
    3. Local governments can (and do) enact prohibitions against "display of firearms" in cities and/or specific areas within cities or counties, which means they can't be visible. Under this statute there is absolutely no requirement for the city or county to post notice of the display ban.
    4. Local governments can (and do) enact firearms bans on local government property and in parks and recreational areas.
    5. Any federally-owned property or federally-regulated property like banks and Post Offices is of course a prohibited area.
    6. Much of the Outer Banks is "National Seashore," and firearms are prohibited in those areas.


    So in theory that leaves everywhere else in the state - except for one more thing. There is a common-law offense in NC called "going armed to the terror of the people." Basically what this means is that if someone sees you carrying a firearm and calls the police to report "person with a gun," you can be charged with this offense. It's not often used in rural areas, but has been used in populated areas. If you are an out-of-state visitor who is not here lawfully hunting or engaged in some overt firearms-related event such as a competition, it will be hard to talk your way out of it.

    So is open carry legal in NC? In theory, yes. In practice, maybe. It seems to us like a very good way to get arrested.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Basically what this means is that if someone sees you carrying a firearm and calls the police to report "person with a gun," you can be charged with this offense
    Show me one case where someone was charged with this and it stuck. There is no way he can be charged with this and it be valid if the gun stayed in his holster. In order to be charged with "Going armed to the terror of the people" the gun must be brandished, and three other conditions must be met, I can't remeber what they are, but I will find them for you. I too live in NC and the OP did nothing wrong whatsoever and if they tried to hold this against you I would get a lawyer quick. I would also cancel my account with AT&T and be more careful next time.
    NCH
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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Here is what I was referring to:

    In order to go armed to the terror of the public, four conditions must be meet:

    Common-law offense (272 N.C.535; 32 N.C. App. 496)

    "A person guilty of this offense (Going Armed to the Terror of the People)"

    1. arms himself or herself with the unusual and dangerous weapons (any firearm)

    2. for the purpose of terrifying other (must be meaning to terrorize)

    3. and goes about on public highways

    4. in a manner to cause terror to others (must be acting in such a way that a reasonable person would be alarmed)

    All four conditions must be met for it to be charged. Just open carrying a holstered firearm cannot meet these requirements.

    I usually use this link for municipal codes:

    Municode.com |Online Library
    So you can easily see how this doesn't fit the situation of the poster!! If they try and charge you with this BS law I would have this printed and show the cop and let him know your lawyer will soon be called!!
    NCH

    BTW. May I suggest all NC residents to please join Grass Roots of NC. this organization is doing more for NC gun rights than anyone else. This is one of the stupid laws we are trying to get off the books as well as carrying where alchohol is served, state parks, etc..... Just Google Grass Roots of NC.
    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
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    NCHornet

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    Member Array CCWINNC's Avatar
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    IANAL, But..No you are not in any trouble. You must not return to the store however, If you do it will be trespassing and you will be in trouble. The company has the right to ask you to leave and not return. Wally world is the same way in alot of places. If they see you carrying then all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse then you are tresspasing. The call to the police is just to make it leagally binding should they catch you there again.

    A letter or call to there corporate office should be in order expressing your concern that they are suppressing your 2a right and that it may cause a loss of revenue for them.
    Last edited by CCWINNC; January 10th, 2008 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Add more..
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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    This Company/office has chosen not to want your business , cancel their contract ( cite non access to local customer service as a reason ) and get another company .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    I'd call the store and speak to the manager, explain what happened and ask to have the trespass order removed. Explain that you were not informed that there was a problem or given the opportunity to reconcile the situation before the police were involved, and that you would have been happy to leave your sidearm in the car if you were asked (just say it). I would think that a reasonable manager would be understanding and let the matter go.

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    This Company/office has chosen not to want your business , cancel their contract ( cite non access to local customer service as a reason ) and get another company .
    I'd also expect not to have to pay any cancellation penalty as a result of their decision to exclude you as a customer.

  11. #10
    Member Array Hondov65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    This Company/office has chosen not to want your business , cancel their contract ( cite non access to local customer service as a reason ) and get another company .
    I thought about cancelling my service but if I did it would be just for spite and I would be giving up over 3,500 minutes of air time (Roll-over) I do all of my bill paying with them on-line so there is no need to visit their office. I just went ther to upgrade my phone I had not had a new phone since 1996. I have 30 days to to decide if I want to keep the phone. If I keep it I'm under contract for 2 years, but I'm gonna' have a cell phone anyway you look at it, so the 2 year commitment is no problem. I will however contact customer service to try to get this reversed. I don't like the idea that I'm not allowed to go in their office ever again or I may be arrested.
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  12. #11
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    I'd cancel the deal with AT&T. They didn't even contact you to get your side of the story and banned you from the premises. Shop around and I bet you can get a better deal with another company.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    I'd get rid of them just like they got rid of you. They're not the only phone company in town - shop around.
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisin Wind View Post
    I'd cancel the deal with AT&T. They didn't even contact you to get your side of the story and banned you from the premises. Shop around and I bet you can get a better deal with another company.

    I agree.... But, I would also write a letter to ATT’s home office and file a complaint.

  15. #14
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    It'd be great if it were as easy as just getting rid of them. But many of us know that not all cell phone providers offer the best coverage. I'm stuck with a provider for another 8 months that doesn't have good enough coverage in some areas where I need to go (discovered long after signing up with them). As much as you should try to be principled, you probably also need to be practical.

    If you've been happy with your service, I'd follow up seeking a reconciliation. This could be parlayed into an educational moment for the staff at that store. Perhaps they haven't given it enough thought and they've simplistically presumed "gun = bad." Perhaps their mind is not made up and you can explain your permit status and demonstrate that you are courteous and reasonable and they have nothing to worry about in you.

    Obviously, contact the police and establish on paper that you were not violating any laws.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I believe that you have to be put on notice of trespass. And that has to be served to you. I doubt seriously they bothered to go through that, as it seems they just verbally told it to you when you happened to come back. I suspect they were "told" that the only thing they could do was put you on notice. The discussion you had with the manager, I do not think, is a proper notice of trespass. Either they intend to...or they just don't know how... or they are ignorant of how. I would call the local LEO and ask them if there is a matter that you need to deal with before you go any further. They can put you on notice if they like. But its not a legal matter as far a criminal law... unless you violate it. You might want to speak to an Attourney about all that part of it. But I am pretty sure you have to "serve" a notice of trespass before you can enforce a notice of trespass. And it would not be uncommon for the LEO to tell someone that this is their only option when being called out to a situation for which there was no crime. And option they might suggest because the person insists on "there must be something I can do!" and thats all there is.

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