When and why carry a gun - Page 2

When and why carry a gun

This is a discussion on When and why carry a gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ra - I have not referred to any ''experiences'' because I had felt none of them in the past which were of sufficient danger or ...

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Thread: When and why carry a gun

  1. #16
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    ra - I have not referred to any ''experiences'' because I had felt none of them in the past which were of sufficient danger or interest to feel them worth relating. Not classic ''stick-ups'' as such.

    My decision to carry is tho based in small part on these experiences - one in particular when I was (in UK) - and was outnumbered three to one in a situation that could have gotten real nasty. Knives were out. By the grace of some deity or other, I was endowed with the gift of reason and was able to talk things down, following which some cops on patrol came near and the perps decided to move on. It could have gotten bad real quick.

    My main reason is simply that I have always felt the individual should by right be able to arm him/herself if so wished - I am one of those. Beyond that as I have tried to explain several times - I choose not to be without when I might most need - and that I have no way of knowing - it's that simple.

    I would quite like to shed the burden at times but because I am personally committed to my decision to carry I choose to make it a constant. I want to see the time - I look at my watch - it is there. I get a flat - I stop and change the tire for my spare - it is there.

    I want my sidearm - it is there. I have no problem with any individual's chosen carry regime - it is after all our own personal choice. With me, call it dedication and knowing that I will not be caught out thru an assumption that somewhere or time is proven safe.

    I can, I will and I do. That is this ol' phart's way!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Let me add - one other factor. I am not, now age 60 - anything like as capable when it comes to either fighting strength or even stamina. It is a situation I acknowledge and feel makes me more demedent on my ultimate means of protection - beyond which I will go to greater lengths than ever before, to avoid trouble.

    Dr - ''You must be jaundiced - you look so yellow"

    Me - ''No Doc it is my condition - geriatric discretionary cowardice and my awareness state''.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #17
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    Not Really

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72
    "The Lord is my shepherd, I am his fanged sheep........" Quite a conversion experience, Hank!
    I thought long and hard before committing to exercise my right. I have never been attacked or been in a situation where I ever needed a gun. However I have been quite concerned by our hurtling toward the liberal crevass. The supreme court has gotten totally out of control as evidenced by their recent eminent domain ruling. The day may come when the common man in the good ol' USA will and should take up arms to impress upon government lackeys their displeasure with the governance being rammed down their throats. And besides I like being armed :-)
    Last edited by HollowpointHank; August 15th, 2005 at 09:18 PM. Reason: better wording

  3. #18
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    I don't leave home without it, because the time I do leave home without it may just be the time I do need it.

  4. #19
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    Somewhere here, in a now yellowed post, I posted the event that caused me to finally got my CCW permit. Up until that time I open carried (legal in AZ), concealed until stopped by police and then moved to open carry, and sometimes, yes, simply "contrary to the law".

    Now, I carry most of the time. But when it's not on me, it's somewhere nearby. I carry in my pack to work and leave it in the car. When I leave to go home at night, I pull off of the property, stop across the street from the office and put it on for the trip home.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Everyone has their own reasons for carrying a firearm and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable trying to explain their reasons for carrying a gun. A "Something happened to me/a family member/a friend once" would more than do. I am just curious as to some of the reasons we choose to (or not to) carry a gun. Like several members who replied, while I don't always have a gun on me, there are plenty in the house and one is always kept in each car. Like my American Express card, I don't leave home without it. However, while carrying a gun has become part of my lifestyle, it has not become the focus of my lifestyle. Besides, my wife also has a carry permit. Since we're out together most of the time and she has her gun whether I have mine or not, we aren't exactly defenseless. I, like others here, also consider it an insurance policy that I hope I will never have to use. If and when the time comes I do need it, I just hope I have the presence of mind to remember everything I've read and practiced.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  6. #21
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    rachilders,
    I appreciate your honesty and openness about this subject. I have a "few" thoughts that you may have already considered. In any event, I'd like to hear your response.

    Carrying a gun is kinda like carrying a spare tire. Either is only significant if we need it. I know my spare tire in my car takes up a lot of space that I need sometimes for other things, but I have never left it behind because I know if I I need it...

    Deciding when to and not to carry a gun is much like deciding whether to leave the spare tire or take it. Except, needing a spare tire is mostly an inconvenience, needing a gun infers facing a life threatening situation. I don't know of anyone that routinely removes the spare from the trunk, etc. because they figure they won't need that today. I think the same thing applies to locking doors. Those who feel it important to keep car and house doors locked, rarely do it part time. But I know lot's of people who choose not to carry a gun; perhaps the most important item we could carry. It not only provides protection, in the majority of confrontations, provides prevention.

    Before I got my carry permit, I pulled in at my local Ace hardware and was right behind a guy in a truck. He tooted his horn at a car parked in front of him that was blocking some parking spaces he needed to park in. Gestures were exchanged; he jumps out, runs to the back of his truck and grabs a long handled shovel from the bed of the truck. Three young guys jump out of the car and the confrontation is on. I jump out to try to settle things down, only to realize another guy had run and picked up two bricks, one in each hand, and now the posturing began. It was getting "hot", the one guy went to his truck and reached in to get a gun. I stood against the door so he couldn't get out. Fortunately the manager of Ace arrived on the scene and he dealt with the four while I restrained the other guy and it ended.

    I tell the story, not to show how a gun could have been used, but to point out that we never know when something is going to happen. A guy upset with his "ex" in Atlanta, followed her into a Lowe's and shot her and an employee and then killed himself. Again in Atlanta, a guy distraught over stock market losses goes into two finacial institutions and kills a number of employees. The amazing thing to me is that nobody shot this guy! Why? Because none of them figured they'd need their guns at work that day; it was just business as usual and nothing like this had ever happened before.

    At a law school in Viriginia, a crazed gunman shot a professor and several others as I recall, and two students ran to their cars, retrieved their guns and confronted the guy. He immediately surrendered. What if they decided they wouldn't need their guns on campus that day. The mere presentation of the guns were enough.

    Many years ago a gunman walks into McDonald's and started shooting people. I forget how many he killed before the police could get there and stop him. How can one man shoot so many? Nobody figured they'd need their gun that day and they missed the perdiction.

    The "always carry" is a mind-set, an intentional, pre-determined, chosen way of life. I'm one of those. A guy asked me once why I carry a gun and I said, "I'm really pathetic at predicting when/if I'll need it, and if life has taught me anything it's, the one time you don't carry something, is the time you'll need it, and I never want to stand over a loved one's hospital bed or casket and say, if I'd just had my gun - but I just couldn't imagine needing it that day."

    I've heard too many people that waited until something bad happened to realize being prepared is better than waiting. For example, Jim Murnack, owner of Fist Inc. was anti-gun, until he was mugged, now not only does he have a gun, he says, "I wish I could carry my gun more often." He lives in NY and carry is pretty restricted. Of course his story has a good outcome for me, he now makes some of the the most innovative and finest Kydex and leather hangun holsters available.

    When we choose when we will and will not carry a gun, we are essentially trying to predict when we will need it. It's a gamble; if we're right then everything's fine, but if we are wrong, the consequences can be devastating and we will likely live with that decision the rest of our lives. Also, selective carry can readily lead to not carrying when you actually intended to. Because I always carry, I miss my gun like I would miss the belt I carry it on. On rare occassions I have forgotten my billfold, my office keys, etc. but I have never, not one time, ever forgot my gun.

    Last (I'm sure all thought "last" would never come), the question, "Would it be wiser to wait for something to happen that would encourage one to carry a gun full time or carry a gun full time before something happens?" In most cases, the mere presentation of a gun ends the confrontation. If we have something that powerful, why would we ever risk not having it?

  7. #22
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    I work in prison. I know who's out there. And I know that 96% of them are released back into society's open arms.... I have seen the face of Evil, and Evil gets out on parole on Tuesday....
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

  8. #23
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    Tangle - you helped very ably to once more help me restate my own case.

    Could hardly put it any better at all. Thank you.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    TANGLE...

    I can see where you (and the other 99% who have replied) are coming from. I also see that this is a question that's going to never have a "one size fits all" answer. I agree with almost all of the responses here as to why people carry a gun. My real disagreement is only with when and to what degree. Some of the things you mentioned I've already addressed in earlier posts, so I'll only touch on them here, if at all, and address other points you've asked or stated. Again, this is only my opinion and I could be wrong. Like belly buttons and fingerprints, we all have them and they are almost always different from everyone elses.

    Nothing truly bad has happened to me or anyone I directly know, yet I still have a license to carry a gun so I'm not waiting for something to happen before I get motivated and prepared. I guess the big difference between me and some of the others here is lifestyle and experience. First, I am currently a stay at home dad who's watched my 6 year old triplets for the past few years while my wife does her career thing. I also have a small, home based business to give me some extra income along with a retirement check from the navy every month. As such, I don't have any possible work related conflicts to deal with and unless I have a need or reason to be out, I'm usually at home. Second, my wife carries her gun with her whenever we are out together and there is always one with us in our vehicles whether we carry or not. Third, I live in a low crime area and frequent places that are highly unlikely to require me to need a gun. Not that it can't happen, but the odds are normally greater that I'll get killed in a plane crash than that I'll get robbed or attacked. So, should I carry a parachute when I fly because the plane might crash? Fourth, I try my best NOT to place myself in situations like the one you described involving the truck. I would not have jumped into the middle of someone else's fight unless it was forced upon me, particularly since I usually have my wife, kids or all the above with me. Maybe when I was younger and single, but not now, being in my mid 50's with a family to consider. Call me shallow, but that's why a majority of people are injured or arrested every year during disturbances... not minding their own business. Personally, I'd have called 911 and backed my car away to a safer distance until the police arrived unless the fight was forced upon me, then I do whatever is necessary to protect me and mine. Of course, not being there, I can make a hindsight judgment a lot better than someone who was there in the heat of the moment. Finally, I hear a lot here about the state of the country... crime is rampant and crazies are running wild in the streets. We all need to arm ourselves to the teeth, travel in convoys, barricade ourselves in our bunkers and have an armed watch when we sleep at night. I don't know about any of the rest of you, but that just ain't what it's like in any of the places I've lived. While I now live in a fairly small, quiet, low crime Texas town with more guns than people (maybe that's why it's so peaceful and crime free!), I've also lived in the urban jungles of Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Memphis, Charlotte, New Orleans and others. While there are areas of those cities that I wouldn't go to even with a machine gun, 90% of them are safe, low crime areas where you're more likely to get hit by a car than a bullet. While we constantly hear about the thousands of people in this country who are crime victims every day, we don't hear about the 300,000,000 or so people in America who go about their business every day without a problem.

    No, don't carry a gun in my home, but there are guns in my home. No, I don't always carry a gun when I'm away from my home, but I do have one with me in my car and I try to avoid the places where I'm most likely to need it. If I do need my gun, it's within arms reach and probably more accessible than most guns carried in holsters in a vehicle. If I am remotely uneasy or concerned with anywhere I may be going, I'll take my gun with me or if necessary, simply remove the one from my car and slip it into my pocket or belt. I suppose if my circumstances were different, I'd be different. As it is, I do what I think is required to protect myself and my family... just as I'm sure you do. If I were you, I might do things exactly the same as you do, we'll never know. The bottom line is we all do what we think is required to ensure our personal safety and security.
    Last edited by rachilders; August 16th, 2005 at 12:50 PM.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  10. #25
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    rachilder,
    Good thoughts again. I'm not trying to change your lifestyle...well, yes I am too.

    This documentary was on TV not long ago, Dateline or something like that. I also read it in Reader's Digest. I thought of this when you said you are at home mostly. A professor and his wife lived in a very quite, peaceful small town and was well liked by everyone. One night two teens randomly selected their house, knocked on the door and asked for their help. The long story short - the two teens slashed their throats in their own home and the community was stunned!

    That was the very condensed Reader's Digest version. What Reader's Digest didn't tell is that the professor's house was not the first house they approached. At the previous house the man went to the door with his Glock 23 he faithfully carried. Something (awareness) made him suspicious and without ever opening the door, he made the presence of his Glock known to the teen and they left and went to the professor's house. They found out later from interviewing the teens that their plan was for one to knock and talk and the other would hide out of sight. As soon as the door opened, they would attack.

    From what you say, you would probably answer a door with a gun, but what if you hear someone in your house that you know is not one of yours and you can't get to a gun or can't get to one fast enough?

    Again the point is not that carrying a gun "saves the day" even though it often does, but bad things do happen to good and innocent people in their own homes.

    And then long ago, some BGs got the erroneous idea that this farm family had some money stashed in their home. The two BGs broke in their home, IIRC, on a Sunday morning, tied up the family, and after some torture to get the non-existent money, they slit the throats of the entire family. Same thing again, the quiet, peaceful community was stunned.

    Recently saw a documentary on the BTK serial killings that occurred over a period of many, many years. Many of the victims died within steps of their front door or in the home itself. These were random selections and there was no indication that any of the victims worried about being killed in their home in their neighborhood.

    Another documentary that has been on TV recently is selling something via newpaper classifieds. The potential buyers would call and come by to look at what was for sell and either mug or kill the seller. It was presented as a some what common ruse.

    The point, good neighborhoods, staying at home, even going to church, etc. is no more guarantee that we won't be attacked in our homes than a seat belt guarantees we won't be in an auto accident.

    I even carry my gun when I mow my yard. Why? Because someone can (and have on numerous occasions) turn in my driveway under the guise of asking for directions and turn it into something ugly.

    All I'm saying is, even in my home, I'm more protected always carrying my gun than I would be without it.

    I see that you recognize bad things can and do happen to good people away from the home, since either you or your wife carry when you are out and about. But, you must believe that bad things will not happen when you are at home with the children.

    Sad words: "I would have never believed something like this could happen in this community." That's a composite quote from the community where the professor and his wife were murdered in their home.

    You are the first and only line of defense for your children when they are under your care in your home. Are you gambling literally everything on "it" won't happen in my home?
    Last edited by Tangle; August 17th, 2005 at 08:29 AM.

  11. #26
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    Tangle and RAchilders,

    I think many of us owe you both thanks for giving so much thought and forsight into one one of the most important descisions we can make in the personal safety of ourselves and loved ones. You both make great points, but I find myself siding with Tangle...I too am just lousy at predicting when and where I may be attacked. I used to think that these things happen "elsewhere", however, recent events in my town and area have convinced me that it really can happen anywhere and at any time.

    It is a personal descision each of us has to make...but I, like tangle, prefer to mow the lawn and go about other aspects of my life with the ability of always confronting the evil that lurks out there...no paranoia here...just a peaceful sense of preparedness. Stay safe all!

    HC

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    I think this will probably wind up being one of those questions that will never have an answer that satisfies everyone and I would also be safe in saying that this may be one area were some of us may have to agree to disagree. I sense that everyone already has their minds made up one way or the other (mostly the other from where I'm sitting at the moment!) and I don't think any amount of discussion will do much to change most opinions here. Unlike those that push for ever greater gun control as the only means to prevent crime and "protect" the common citizen, I respect every law abiding, honest persons legal right own a gun. I also respect that individuals decision to either carry or not to carry it and where and how often to do it if you should choose to carry a concealed handgun. What works for you may not work for me and what level of personal protection I feel comfortable with may not be the same for someone else. To repeat a statement I made in my last post, the bottom line is we all do what WE think is required to ensure our personal safety and security.
    Last edited by rachilders; August 17th, 2005 at 10:40 AM. Reason: EDIT
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  13. #28
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    Well, I'll confess to part-time carry also. I don't have a crystal ball to consult. I have failed to predict my last six flat tires. Glad I had a spare tire and jack in my trunk. But that being said, I still carry part-time. I quess it is just the totality of circumstances in one's life and your individual life experiences. Family/spouse/kids/in-laws/employment/law of your state/how you like to dress; all have a bearing on this carry thing. I've been a shooter/hunter since age 11. I guess all that early NRA firearms training just is stuck in my head. You know; guns not in use should be unloaded and locked away. Hard to get away from that line of thinking....

  14. #29
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    Why I Carry?
    Predicting is easy if you simply state that a crime will happen today. Whether or not I am involved is something I have no control over but I will have a tool at my disposal to aid in ending it. The fact that an area is a low crime area still doesn't mean a no crime area. Do what you can to avoid criminal intentions but that just can't always happen. The fact that anyone that knows of crime happening should know it isn't discriminatory based on any factors listed above.

    Carry when you can!

  15. #30
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    I too am a part time cary. My job does not allow me to bring a firearm or knife to work. I too work in a prison, about a third of our population will never be released, another third will be elderly when they are released. I see no remorse in any of them, regret for being caught, not for their acts. I carry a firearm when I can, and a fighting knife, when I can. The rest of the time, I have to rely on getting entirely too close, hand to hand. After getting to know many murders, I feel a greater need to cary always.
    Razor
    What ever you have to do to go home.

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