Carrying if a consultant at a company

This is a discussion on Carrying if a consultant at a company within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know that the issue of employees carrying at work has been addressed, but here is a slight twist. I have my own consulting business. ...

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Thread: Carrying if a consultant at a company

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Carrying if a consultant at a company

    I know that the issue of employees carrying at work has been addressed, but here is a slight twist.

    I have my own consulting business. I am a one man show. When I do on-site consulting, I am under contract with the client company. I am NOT an employee. I am a contractor. If the client company has a no firearms policy, am I obligated to abide by it?
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    What does your state law state on this matter?
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    Member Array nikdfish's Avatar
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    Questions,
    1) Does the contract have a no weapons on-site clause (or a requirement to follow employee handbook rules)?
    2) Does the work site have no carry on premises signage at the entrances?

    If both are no, then you would seem to be good to go (as long as you don't ask for a clarifying statement & get told its a no-no ... ) as long as there are no statutory prohibitions involved.

    Nick

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    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    if you have been informed of a no firearm policy at a location, and you carry at that location, you are trespassing. (if not worse, depending on ur state)

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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    I know that the issue of employees carrying at work has been addressed, but here is a slight twist.

    I have my own consulting business. I am a one man show. When I do on-site consulting, I am under contract with the client company. I am NOT an employee. I am a contractor. If the client company has a no firearms policy, am I obligated to abide by it?
    I always like to say "ignorance is bliss" and "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission", so maybe you really do not want to know the answer to your question!

    What are they going to do to you, un-contract you? Big deal!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    What are they going to do to you, un-contract you? Big deal!
    That might be a really big deal -- like losing a huge contract.

    I retired after 25 years of consulting. Most of my work was for multiple months so losing a contract would have been devastating.

    Looking for the "fine print" would most likely cause you to 1) lose a contract because you couldn't abide by "employee" rules that are clearly intended to cover consultants and 2) have a bad reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    That might be a really big deal -- like losing a huge contract.

    I retired after 25 years of consulting. Most of my work was for multiple months so losing a contract would have been devastating.

    Looking for the "fine print" would most likely cause you to 1) lose a contract because you couldn't abide by "employee" rules that are clearly intended to cover consultants and 2) have a bad reference.
    Tis true... nobody needs to lose any income. But the point was that he would not be breaking any laws or "knowingly" violate a company policy.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  9. #8
    Member Array Troy Price's Avatar
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    It would depend; under your contract are you bound to abide by the rules of the contracting company or are you just contracted to provide a service?

    If the contract only addresses the sevices provided then that is all you are obligated to.
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    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    In most states if it is not posted or has not otherwise been brought to your attention regarding firearms being prohibited on the premises, the most you would be guilty of is trespassing if you refused to leave.

    Now from the business side of things. I do consulting for a large # of businesses. I do not carry in most because I KNOW I would lose the business. Out of all the businesses I deal with, only one is posted. So if you don't mind losing the business that a particular client provides you with, then go ahead. Most businesses are not gun friendly. jmo

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    I am in exactly the same legal position as you. If a client has a "legal" prohibition against it (carry) posted to the general populace I follow the prohibition. My two largest clients,however, are posted on their front doors, but not their back doors. I thus always try to enter through the back door so I have a "colorable" argument if needed.

    Haven't needed it yet, thank goodness.

    I also am not an employee, and thus "Employment Policies" do not apply to me as an independent contractor.

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    I'm assuming you are talking about an on-site contract. I don't know the specifics of the law in this case, but as a former CIO that hired many consultants, I can tell you my expectation was that consultants would follow all policy and rules that my staff had to follow. Knowing them and not following them would get the contract ended immediately and I would be looking for another consultant. That being said, there seems to alot of gun owners among IT people, in general, so you might run into a manager that was okay with it. Just ask him, but be prepared to not carry if he is against it.

    IMO, most consultants cannot afford to not follow client rules if they want to remain in business for long....
    Bumper
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    ........lose a contract because you couldn't abide by "employee" rules that are clearly intended to cover consultants ........
    Employee rules apply to employees only. The independent contractor's contract covers the company's relationship with the contractor. Two different matters, two different contracts.

    In practice a company might try to argue the two are not mutually exclusive, however, most companies would not step onto that slippery slope because you might end up classified as an employee for all purposes - tax, legal, benefits, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
    I'm assuming you are talking about an on-site contract. I don't know the specifics of the law in this case, but as a former CIO that hired many consultants, I can tell you my expectation was that consultants would follow all policy and rules that my staff had to follow. Knowing them and not following them would get the contract ended immediately and I would be looking for another consultant.
    I can't disagree, because when I'm onsite, I look, breath, dress and follow all apparent employee rules. I never ask about CC employee matters thou. I guess I'm a "Don't ask, Don't tell" kind of guy. I am very sensitive to the issue, thou, because most of my clients are in a highly regulated industry with a lot of rules and regulations imposed on them.

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    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    I'm a consultant as well. Read the contract carefully, it may bind you to the same rules as employees. As a rule of thumb, I always reviewed employee rules when onsite and followed them. I figured it was the professional thing to do. Employees get all bent out of shape when they feel that the consultants have more freedom than they do. Technically we wouldn't be bound by dresscodes, but it would be inherently unprofessional to under-dress. I always over-dressed.

    That's just me. Legally, you're probably fine to do so unless your contract states otherwise (general wording saying you will follow all employee guidelines, etc...)
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Legally I don't know and unless I have a bunch of other jobs lined up I sure wouldn't test it. You may be legal but you are not fire proof and unfortunatley if you are contracting/consulting you have to do better than the employees to keep at it and that includes dress and CCW. I use a lot of contractors in my job and if one told me that he didn't have to follow the employee rules because he wasn't an employee he would no longer be a contractor for me.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Bottom line is your client can end their business relationship regardless if the contract, verbal agreement, employee handbook, etc does not prohibit firearms. Don't look for those "loopholes" like a rear entrance door not being posted. If you value their business and you are pretty sure they would be against carrying a firearm, then don't carry there. You could sue them for breach of contract if one was enforce - but good luck on funding/winning it. Not to mention the bad press/reputation that could spread among your other clients. This is not a legal issue to look for a loop hole - but a personal feel or knowledge on their policy for firearms.

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