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North American International Auto Show

4K views 18 replies 16 participants last post by  Mainspring 
#1 ·
Hi this is my first time posting even tho i have been hanging around for awhile. My question is i live in michigan and the auto show is here a Cobo Hall in Detroit and I am wandering if i can carry in there. Michigan law states that you can not carry in a entertainment facility that seats for than 2500 people, but in Cobo you don't sit you have to walk around, does that still apply? Any info will be helpful.

Thanks
Kyle
 
#2 ·
Welcome Kyle .

You will better advice than from me but - can't help thinking ''seats'' - meaning butts on seats, is probably a very loose definition.

Large event - Detroit? Hmmm - somehow seems tricky!
 
#12 ·
HA! That's a hoot! No offense intended...you just have to know what it's like asking DPD anything having to do with legal carry to appreciate me laughing at that suggestion. :icon_neutral: :aargh4: :rofl:

Too bad you fellow Michiganders don't have an "X" in the little box on the front of your CPL next to the sentence "Pistol Free Zone Exempt". :haha: :danceban:

Having an "X" in that little itty bitty box has led to some interesting conversations with school administrators/employees and Hospital security/employees. People take offense polite suggestions to pee up a rope, and they really take offense at not being able to do anything about the drops falling on their head.

It's the little things that make life worth living.
 
#4 ·
welcome kyle. not sure on cobo. im sure youve looked at msp website,
entertainment places seating 2500+,but would that fall under sports
arena-stadium. not sure. you know security will be tight thought.
phone call would be helpful im sure. enjoythe show,been there many times
but havent been since ive been carrying.
 
#5 ·
I love questions like this because they remind me of the agument between magazines and clips.

LEO - This place is off limits because it seats more than 2500:tired:
YOU - There aren't any seats becasue everyone is walking around.:rofl:
LEO - I count over 800 cars in here.:22a:
YOU - What does that have to do with it?:duh:
LEO - Each car has an average of four seats so that makes 3200 seats.:haha:

I have no idea which way it goes but loopholes are wonderful. :danceban:
 
#6 ·
I believe it applies no matter if the people are sitting or standing. I just went to the Birch Run Gun and Knife Show above Flint last weekend and they had a big sign in front of the ticket booth stating no CCW due to the seating. But most of the people there were walking. And these are pro-gun people so I would think if there was a sitting vs. standing loophole they would have found it.
 
#8 ·
If you have a state pro-gun assn, they are probably the best source of info for these types of questions.

Asking a LEO or the venue is more than likely going to get you an answer that is based on personal opinions, rather than law. BTDT
 
#14 ·
The restriction is not actual seats in the facility per a given event, it's toward customer capacity aka 'seats' be the facility for a given event standing room only or else wise. That's how it works toward fire codes fro clubs and concert venues as well even as people might in a time frame be standing and not seated.

A first year prosecutor would eat you alive if you tried to play the but everyone was walking around excuse in front of a judge.

- Janq
 
#15 ·
I am not so sure of that as I used to think the same way. I don't know how the law reads but if it says "seats" he may have a good legal case. After reading all the different gun boards I have a new understanding of the wording of laws. I am sure the legislature intended that it reference capacity but maybe that is not what the law reads.:gah:

Use your typical high shool gym with the folding bleachers. If the law says 2,500 seats would it matter if the bleacher seats were pulled out or stowed. If they are pulled out and the typical bench, how many to count on each bench. Would it be the design of 8, or possibly 10 small students, maybe only 3 for weight watchers. Possibly each bench would count only as one. :haha:

The we get into the folding chair deal. Do we have to include folding chairs if they aren't put out? How about if we space them closely or or leave room walk between each row.

Finally we get through all of that and determne that the seating capacity is 2,450. But that doesn't include the teams out on the court, the janitors, hot dog vendors, ticket takers, security guards etc. They don't sit down normally but occasionally they do.

See, from reading all these gun boards I have learned to look very closely at the laws to see what they actually say rather than what they were intended to mean.:35:

Some things I have learned:

If a sign says no concealed carry that does not apply to open carry.:haha:

If a sign says no concealed carry it doesn't mean anything unless I am asked personally to leave.:slap:

If I am asked personally to leave it must be by the owner and not some flunkee manager.:king:

Most of all signs don't mean anything unless accompanied by metal detectors:banned:

If I am asked by a security guard a a business to show my receipt for a purchase I can tell him to get lost and keep walking:hand36:

If the security guard tries to physically stop me I can defend myself including shooting him:buttkick:

If my 14 year old gets out a ladder and climbs through the second story window of my house to get my gun and loans it to a friend to commit a robbery I can be sued for negligence:gah:

If I see someone leaving my neighbor's house and I think he is a robber I can kill him if I am in Texas:9:

But best of all that I have learned form gun boards is that if everyone would carry a gun around there would be no more killings.:danceban:
 
#16 · (Edited)
I don't see a problem

Cobo Center is a convention center, not "An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more." The legislature could have chosen more general words like "public venue" but did not. I don't see how a prosecutor could twist the law as written to cover a convention center -- even if the exhibitor is using it for entertainment.

Also, I don't remember any "no guns" signs on the building. The rules posted on their website don't seem to mention the issue...

Cobo Conference/Exhibition Center

Well, on the other hand, as others have said this Detroit News article seems to imply that they are not allowed.

DETNEWS | Weblog | Auto Show Blog

I wonder what happens if they wand you and you show them your CPL?
 
#17 ·
I go every year. I do not carry into Cobo. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember signs saying no weapons allowed.
 
#18 ·
To and From problem

:yup:In a perfect world, there should be a special entrance where we could place your weapon in a locker while inside. It's not being inside that bothers me. It's the travel between the venue and your car that concerns me. Lets face it, you don't know who you're going to come across on your little walk in or back out. Especially at night!
 
#19 ·
I was there last spring to take a test, and entered through the Jefferson Ave entrance. There weren't any signs posted.

But about the "Convention Center v. Entertainment facility" question...back in the day there used to be a lot of entertainment type events there, i.e. concerts, etc... I donno...I'm just glad that I have that little "X" in the little box on the front of my CPL.
 
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