North American International Auto Show

North American International Auto Show

This is a discussion on North American International Auto Show within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi this is my first time posting even tho i have been hanging around for awhile. My question is i live in michigan and the ...

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Thread: North American International Auto Show

  1. #1
    New Member Array Kyle2986's Avatar
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    North American International Auto Show

    Hi this is my first time posting even tho i have been hanging around for awhile. My question is i live in michigan and the auto show is here a Cobo Hall in Detroit and I am wandering if i can carry in there. Michigan law states that you can not carry in a entertainment facility that seats for than 2500 people, but in Cobo you don't sit you have to walk around, does that still apply? Any info will be helpful.

    Thanks
    Kyle


  2. #2
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    Welcome Kyle .

    You will better advice than from me but - can't help thinking ''seats'' - meaning butts on seats, is probably a very loose definition.

    Large event - Detroit? Hmmm - somehow seems tricky!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Member Array mslaughtertx's Avatar
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    Contact the hall supporting the venue (or local PD). They will tell you for sure. Though keep in mind once you know you cannot claim ignorance

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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    welcome kyle. not sure on cobo. im sure youve looked at msp website,
    entertainment places seating 2500+,but would that fall under sports
    arena-stadium. not sure. you know security will be tight thought.
    phone call would be helpful im sure. enjoythe show,been there many times
    but havent been since ive been carrying.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    I love questions like this because they remind me of the agument between magazines and clips.

    LEO - This place is off limits because it seats more than 2500
    YOU - There aren't any seats becasue everyone is walking around.
    LEO - I count over 800 cars in here.
    YOU - What does that have to do with it?
    LEO - Each car has an average of four seats so that makes 3200 seats.

    I have no idea which way it goes but loopholes are wonderful.

  6. #6
    Member Array airworthy's Avatar
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    I believe it applies no matter if the people are sitting or standing. I just went to the Birch Run Gun and Knife Show above Flint last weekend and they had a big sign in front of the ticket booth stating no CCW due to the seating. But most of the people there were walking. And these are pro-gun people so I would think if there was a sitting vs. standing loophole they would have found it.

  7. #7
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    I think this one is off limits. If you park under Cobo, you can leave your gun in the car.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    If you have a state pro-gun assn, they are probably the best source of info for these types of questions.

    Asking a LEO or the venue is more than likely going to get you an answer that is based on personal opinions, rather than law. BTDT

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    This has been converged before but not on this forrum so Try here... Michigan Gun Owners and to a search, on Carrying in COBO hall.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  10. #10
    Member Array ellerblr's Avatar
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    I'm headed to the auto show this weekend too, and last year they even made us check in all pocket knifes. I think i remember them wanding us with metal detectors. Other than that, don't know. I would like to find definitively.

  11. #11
    Member Array Smooth23's Avatar
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    No guns in cobo. Also going this weekend. Security will be tight.

  12. #12
    Member Array Mainspring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mslaughtertx View Post
    Contact the hall supporting the venue (or local PD). They will tell you for sure. Though keep in mind once you know you cannot claim ignorance
    HA! That's a hoot! No offense intended...you just have to know what it's like asking DPD anything having to do with legal carry to appreciate me laughing at that suggestion.

    Too bad you fellow Michiganders don't have an "X" in the little box on the front of your CPL next to the sentence "Pistol Free Zone Exempt".

    Having an "X" in that little itty bitty box has led to some interesting conversations with school administrators/employees and Hospital security/employees. People take offense polite suggestions to pee up a rope, and they really take offense at not being able to do anything about the drops falling on their head.

    It's the little things that make life worth living.
    The keys to winning a gunfight are first to bring a gun and secondly to take your time, quickly.

    Always remember that if your opponent is within range, so are you.

    POWER TO THE MEPEOPLE!!!

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainspring View Post
    HA! That's a hoot! No offense intended...you just have to know what it's like asking DPD anything having to do with legal carry to appreciate me laughing at that suggestion.

    Too bad you fellow Michiganders don't have an "X" in the little box on the front of your CPL next to the sentence "Pistol Free Zone Exempt".

    Having an "X" in that little itty bitty box has led to some interesting conversations with school administrators/employees and Hospital security/employees. People take offense polite suggestions to pee up a rope, and they really take offense at not being able to do anything about the drops falling on their head.

    It's the little things that make life worth living.
    Yeah a big +1 on that, at present I am going through a lot of flack on a different forum from the "I am a bad *** and no cop is going to tell me what to do" group. Then they say call the local police for a opinion on..... Those boys are a but mixed up.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The restriction is not actual seats in the facility per a given event, it's toward customer capacity aka 'seats' be the facility for a given event standing room only or else wise. That's how it works toward fire codes fro clubs and concert venues as well even as people might in a time frame be standing and not seated.

    A first year prosecutor would eat you alive if you tried to play the but everyone was walking around excuse in front of a judge.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    The restriction is not actual seats in the facility per a given event, it's toward customer capacity aka 'seats' be the facility for a given event standing room only or else wise. That's how it works toward fire codes fro clubs and concert venues as well even as people might in a time frame be standing and not seated.

    A first year prosecutor would eat you alive if you tried to play the but everyone was walking around excuse in front of a judge.

    - Janq

    I am not so sure of that as I used to think the same way. I don't know how the law reads but if it says "seats" he may have a good legal case. After reading all the different gun boards I have a new understanding of the wording of laws. I am sure the legislature intended that it reference capacity but maybe that is not what the law reads.

    Use your typical high shool gym with the folding bleachers. If the law says 2,500 seats would it matter if the bleacher seats were pulled out or stowed. If they are pulled out and the typical bench, how many to count on each bench. Would it be the design of 8, or possibly 10 small students, maybe only 3 for weight watchers. Possibly each bench would count only as one.

    The we get into the folding chair deal. Do we have to include folding chairs if they aren't put out? How about if we space them closely or or leave room walk between each row.

    Finally we get through all of that and determne that the seating capacity is 2,450. But that doesn't include the teams out on the court, the janitors, hot dog vendors, ticket takers, security guards etc. They don't sit down normally but occasionally they do.

    See, from reading all these gun boards I have learned to look very closely at the laws to see what they actually say rather than what they were intended to mean.

    Some things I have learned:

    If a sign says no concealed carry that does not apply to open carry.

    If a sign says no concealed carry it doesn't mean anything unless I am asked personally to leave.

    If I am asked personally to leave it must be by the owner and not some flunkee manager.

    Most of all signs don't mean anything unless accompanied by metal detectors

    If I am asked by a security guard a a business to show my receipt for a purchase I can tell him to get lost and keep walking

    If the security guard tries to physically stop me I can defend myself including shooting him

    If my 14 year old gets out a ladder and climbs through the second story window of my house to get my gun and loans it to a friend to commit a robbery I can be sued for negligence

    If I see someone leaving my neighbor's house and I think he is a robber I can kill him if I am in Texas

    But best of all that I have learned form gun boards is that if everyone would carry a gun around there would be no more killings.

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