Disarming.. - Page 2

Disarming..

This is a discussion on Disarming.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by freakshow10mm Doctors: (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000. (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000. ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Otis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Doctors:
    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
    (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.

    Now Guns:
    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Yes, that is 80 million.
    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
    (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.
    Statistics courtesy of F.B.I.

    Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

    Good point, they should put this on the news. People (especially here in California) are so paranoid about guns, yet think nothing about a doctors advice to take drugs.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CombatEffective
    My doc makes his rounds in jeans and cowboy boots. I get the feeling that he is packing heat, but the subject has never come up.

    I read a while back about customer questionaires pediatricians were giving to parents asking if firearms where in the home.
    It's not just pediatricians. My Internist uses the standard AMA form which requests this info. We leave it blank . . . and if he ever were to say anything to me about it, I'd hand him his head. Besides which he knows that I was a Special/Reserve PO for many years and that I'm now a Constable. Thus, you don't need an MD after your name to figure out that the person is likely to own a few guns!

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    If they gave me this one i think it would be returned with none of your business

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    Sadly, doctors are another group of individuals (along with congressmen and senators) that live in their own little $100,000 - $200,000 a year worlds.
    You mean if our income is above $100,000 - $200,000 a year we live in a different world? I never noticed....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    This is an off topic sort of response, and I'm not picking on you Bumper, but the fact is I have seen people who pull in those fix figure incomes just get used to it.

    I recall when I worked at Lowe's for all those years we had a very nice regular customer who bought all sorts of lawn and garden supplies from us. She was a real nice person. She was also a well to do person. I don't think anything ill of her at all. But my goodness was she naive to the ways of the world.

    She once even asked me if I brought stuff home from work so my gardener would have something to do every day. I didn't have the heart to tell her I didn't have a gardener... heck I was someone else's gardener and I didn't get paid for it either! I changed the subject. I think she'd have been horrified to learn that her car cost as much as the combined annual earnings of everyone that worked in that lawn and garden department save perhaps for the managers.

    In my own little field when I get to confer with other individuals whose background is in mathematics, they assume that I make something like $50,000 a year because they earn $65,000 as entry level peons and "teachers are underpaid." They are shocked when I tell them the pay scale we are on.

    Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want the jobs these guys have because they are BORING. You put me and them in a same room and I've got more personality in my little finger than these guys do in their whole bodies. I have too many hobbies and interests and they have none, unless it's something like memorizing Pi.

    Classic example is when a state legislator, a lawyer by profession whose annual income was in this bracket, was talking to a superintendent of a small school district. The legislator assumed that a superintendent made at least $400k annually. The discussion was that teacher retirement benefits should be cut because we already made in excess of $45,000 annaully on average anyway, plus we all went home to our real jobs that actually paid the bills. Ha!

    I don't begrudge anyone for being rich or poor, but it does color your perceptions. I'm actually glad now that I spent a year living like 85% or more of the people in this country live because when I meet kids who can't afford notebook paper I understand they really can't.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I don't begrudge anyone for being rich or poor, but it does color your perceptions. I'm actually glad now that I spent a year living like 85% or more of the people in this country live because when I meet kids who can't afford notebook paper I understand they really can't.
    Well, first off, I don't consider myself rich. I make a good living now, at 54 years old, but I spent quite a bit of my time earlier in my life working the family farm, punching cattle at a livestock auction, carrying a pan and broom at Six Flags Over Texas, digging ditches, working the dock of a meat packing house and alot of other jobs. I wasn't struck dumb when my salary creeped above $40,000. Saying that people that make above $100k are clueless snobs is like saying everyone that makes below $100k are clueless and uneducated. You paint with too broad a brush when it comes to what people earn. There is only one person responsible for the salary you earn or don't earn. You! And nobody should hold it against you whether you want to be a ditch digger all of your life or an investment banker. That's your decision. But regardless what you decide to do in your career, nothing happens when rise above or sink below a certain level of the pay scale. I will apologize to nobody for my salary, which earn every penny of....
    Bumper
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  7. #22
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    Earning levels can be and often are a contentious and prickly subject.

    One observation I'll make tho - staying sorta ''peripheral" ..... kids that grow up with ''Daddy'' paying all the bills, and then landing some plumb job in ''Daddy's Company" - tend to be those who look down on others, that they perceive as low wage peons. Those folks in fact have sometimes never really found out what struggle is and what hard work means - they have the easy ticket.

    By comparison - the majority who have ''been there - done that'' over time - menial jobs - anything to make a few bucks, and then progressing to better things over time - do seem for the most part to be much better people. Aware of their good fortune whilst still able to say justifiably - ''I earn my bread''!

    Then too I guess we need to remember the parasites - who are certain the world owes them a living - payment for couch potato status - whilst they rest from sucking welfare!!

    It is easy to categorize but not usually a good thing to do - cases needed judged on their merits and demerits.

    Right now in PA we have somewhat of a ruccus re state legislature pay awards - big raises, which do not go down well with average Joes, who would like to see tax dollars spent more prudently. I also have some problems when I see ''fat cat'' pay awards - going to people who sometimes hold little more than honorary positions and yet receive handsome payment.

    I'll quit now - I am as ever rambling. I'll reiterate tho - big subject - easily raises hackles - and one which will always be likely to provoke dissent and disgreement.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    The earning level thing is in many ways about priorities - not just how much you make, but how much you spend.

    I make far less than six figures a year, yet I buy a gun every week or couple of weeks - because I have a second job to help pay for some of it and do all my own car maintenance and drive a 18 year old domestic sedan. What most folks spend on car payments and full-ride insurance I can funnel 95% or more of that into something that'll still have real cash value in ten years.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  9. #24
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    Boy, I think this is the farthest off-topic I have ever seen a thread go on this forum! That speaks pretty well of this group in general, methinks.

    Back to the "disarming" thing, I believe the AMA is another one of those firmly anti-gun organizations that professes to act on behalf of the public. Personally, I can get along just fine without their assistance, thank you very much.

    I really don't understand the "leave your weapons at home" mentality. Do they really think someone with ill intent will comply? Do they think they are at risk from law-abiding citizens? I have reached a rank in the martial arts that equates to "expert" in the mind of the layman. Am I supposed to leave my hands, feet, elbows, knees, teeth, etc. home as well? This so-called logic absolutely amazes me. If anyone wants to talk about what "world" some people live in, that is the one that I have the most trouble understanding.

    SSKC

  10. #25
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    I can't go in places like that - my whole body's a weapon.
    For God, Family and Country!

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper
    Well, first off, I don't consider myself rich. I make a good living now, at 54 years old, but I spent quite a bit of my time earlier in my life working the family farm, punching cattle at a livestock auction, carrying a pan and broom at Six Flags Over Texas, digging ditches, working the dock of a meat packing house and alot of other jobs. I wasn't struck dumb when my salary creeped above $40,000. Saying that people that make above $100k are clueless snobs is like saying everyone that makes below $100k are clueless and uneducated. You paint with too broad a brush when it comes to what people earn. There is only one person responsible for the salary you earn or don't earn. You! And nobody should hold it against you whether you want to be a ditch digger all of your life or an investment banker. That's your decision. But regardless what you decide to do in your career, nothing happens when rise above or sink below a certain level of the pay scale. I will apologize to nobody for my salary, which earn every penny of....
    Woah easy there Bumper! I even prefaced the argument with I wasn't talking about you.

    And even these people weren't snobs; you said that not me! They just didn't know man.

    Case in point, the first time I had to clean a women's restroom, I wondered why they all had little trash cans in the stalls. I had to think about that a while! Now am I a bad or stupid person because I didn't immediately realize that? No and these people weren't and aren't bad or stupid people either. They were just like me: they just weren't thinking!

    Besides my dad finally broke the six figure mark a couple years ago, but it's because he's worked real hard for 25 years, he's in a good field, and time and circumstance have been kind. Would I call my own dad a snob?

    But I wholly disagree that a person determines their own level of wealth.

    I remember my coworker Neil. He was a special needs person. Neil will never have a better job than pushing carts in from the parking lot and he knows it. But he works really hard at it and does a good job anyway. The guy will make $8 an hour the rest of his life pushing shopping carts and watering plants and he will smile the whole time while he's doing it because his boss tells him every day that his work is important. And it is!

    Neil will hopefully work very hard for 25 years like my dad did, but he'll never break the $100k barrier. No way. I wish him all the luck in the world though.

    Or there is my mother who has 2 master's degrees. She's 50 years old and makes less than $25,000 annually and she works so hard her knuckles bleed. She earns every penny of it.

    What makes you think I dislike or look down on everyone who makes a certain amount? Take our superintendent. He's my new professional hero. I want to be just like this guy some day. He makes 7 times what I do and he stands for building a new campus, managing our money better, improving our health insurance, tells off irresponsible lawmakers when they need it, and he got me a raise and wants to get me another one. He knows what's up! But I bet even at what he gets paid, his management skills would be worth a lot more somewhere else.

    It's all a gamble. For everyone that works hard and succeeds financially, there has to be somebody else who did also everything right who loses their shirt. My own parents are evidence of that. My mother didn't do anything wrong, but she just doesn't get paid a lot of money. One business only succeeds because another one failed, and although there is often a cause for the failure, sometimes there is not.

    Society will decide what you are worth and you will be paid accordingly. That is all there is to it. If everyone could do every job, well guess what everyone would do every job. But hey I'm in the same boat as the cops around here so I think that's some mighty good company for the most part.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool Sometimes, experience cures IGNORANCE

    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Doctors:
    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
    (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.

    Now Guns:
    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Yes, that is 80 million.
    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
    (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.
    Statistics courtesy of F.B.I.

    Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
    I wondered when somebody was going to show those stats! LOL I've never really discussed this with my Doc and it never came up so I guess he's neutral on the subject. Most anti-gun Docs are really assertive in this area. Were I to run into one of these, I'd hand him my business card as a certified firearms instructor and offer him a FREE lesson. Sometimes experience (especially a positive experience) cure ignorance. It's happened to me before.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #28
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    Cool Weapons? HAH!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSKC
    I really don't understand the "leave your weapons at home" mentality. Do they really think someone with ill intent will comply? Do they think they are at risk from law-abiding citizens? I have reached a rank in the martial arts that equates to "expert" in the mind of the layman. Am I supposed to leave my hands, feet, elbows, knees, teeth, etc. home as well? This so-called logic absolutely amazes me. If anyone wants to talk about what "world" some people live in, that is the one that I have the most trouble understanding.SSKC
    Yeah, I know. I never rose very high in Aikido, but high enough to remember and INTERNALIZE some kata. I find that most self defense is mental. Attitude is everything. Ability to react to a violent situation and CONTROL it is key. I tell folks I can kill 'em with a rolled up newspaper then show them the technique. They start thinking about that and they forget my limbs. lol
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    Woah easy there Bumper! I even prefaced the argument with I wasn't talking about you.
    Actually, I was trying to make the point using myself as an example. You did make a blanket statement, not about me, but that includes me when you said, "I don't begrudge anyone for being rich or poor, but it does color your perceptions. I'm actually glad now that I spent a year living like 85% or more of the people in this country live because when I meet kids who can't afford notebook paper I understand they really can't."

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    And even these people weren't snobs; you said that not me! They just didn't know man.
    Yeah, I did substitute the word snob (which was close enough to what you were describing) for a clueless ******* (which was closer to what you were describing) in an attempt to keep it a little cleaner. Oh, well.

    If your Dad has hit the "six figure mark", you might not call him a snob, but you did say that it "colors his perceptions". The statement you made was akin to me saying that "teachers actually make more money, for 9 month's work, than they are worth." In many cases, that statement is true, but I have, in effect said that it applies to all teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    But I wholly disagree that a person determines their own level of wealth.
    There are exceptions to everything, of course, and you picked a good one. But I believe you understood my point. If your priorities change (wife and kids) you very well may decide to change careers to better provide for your family. As rfutkamp said, it's a matter of priorities. And as I said, if you do decide you need to make more money, there are options open to you that will allow you to be able to do it. And, if you do, nobody should fault you for it....

    Argument over, we now return to our previously scheduled on topic post....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  15. #30
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    This is "posted" on my office door at school:

    More gun owners than doctors, and yet doctors kill more people by accident than gun owners. Hummmmm…………….

    Subject: Gun statistics

    Number of physicians in the U.S. – 700,000

    Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year – 120,000

    Accidental deaths per physician – 0.171

    Number of gun owners in the U.S. – 80,000,000

    Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) – 1500

    Accidental deaths per gun owner – 0..0000188

    Therefore, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

    Taken from the Benton County News Tribune – 17 Nov 1999
    Last edited by Tangle; August 22nd, 2005 at 12:17 PM.

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