January 21st, 2008 11:07 AM
Women as targets ...
This isn't exactly CCW, but it is defense related and I couldn't see a more fitting forum, so I'll post it here.
My daughter came over for her first session, the first of several, on the manual of arms for her new Mossberg 500 HD gun. I was a bit concerned that she might not be "motivated", though she does have a GP100 she knows how to use and shoots regularly at novice steel plate shoots.
I was holding the shotgun trying to think of something that I could say that would be motivational but not "put her off". She's 31, a registered professional Civil Engineer, valedictorian of her class at every HS and college she graduated from. Anyway, she noticed I was pensive and asked "Dad, are you looking for a reason I should be doing this to get me motivated?" I said "yes, I am". She said, "you don't have to, I've been doing some reading and I learned that the leading cause of death for healthy single females my age is being murdered by a boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, or ex-husband. Trust me on this, I'm motivated! I also figured out that if I am in danger it will most likely be from someone I know, so we have to figure out where to keep this thing so nobody, and I mean nobody, knows I have it, but so I can still get at it almost instantly." We figured that out.
I haven't done the research but the statistic took me by surprise. This girl a real engineer, she is data driven, so I have no doubt she read that statistic some place. But I was still shocked by it.
We had a really good session going through the manual of arms for the pump shotgun, she had lots of questions. We went through some drills related to loading, clearing, etc. Then she asked me about reloading - I said I could get a side saddle shell carrier for it and showed her a picture of one on a WEB site - she said, "lets do that - then then the plan will be get the gun out, rack a shell into the chamber, get in position, call 911. If I'm in fear for my life or grave injury, ID the target, shoot till they stop, stay alert, refill the tube, stay put till the responding officers get to me?" I said that sounded like a plan to me.
I think I should also get one of those good light holding replacement forearms as well. That will simplify target ID, although she can about see in the dark still at her age.
She said "OK, lets do this a couple more times, then hit the range Sunday afternoon - take the 357 along too?" I said, "that works for me."
She also took my copy of In Gravest Extreme to read.
I think this girl has figured it out. It's so much better when the motivation comes from inside - intrinsic motivation is a wonderful thing. But than this girl has been that way since she was born - I shouldn't worry.
January 21st, 2008 11:12 AM
Nah, worry - it is our job as Dads to worry, especially about our daughters...
you have obviously done well
my daughter had to transfer to a school in CA and the last thing she did was give me back here S&W 99 compact...
between the school's rules and the states laws...
January 21st, 2008 11:50 AM
It is good to read this, Fitch. Sounds like your daughter has her head on straight.
I have a neighbor who is married to an former LEO who hates guns and has publicly stated that she preferred to be assaulted or killed before she'd act to defend herself. Go figure!
January 21st, 2008 12:08 PM
That sounds like natural selection to me.
Originally Posted by jongle
January 21st, 2008 12:08 PM
She's a breath of fresh air in a room full of women who refuse to take the initiative.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
January 21st, 2008 12:19 PM
I've always had a suspicion that a lot of the people who feel this way, feel this way right up until the time it happens to them but at that time they would see things differently and if they had the means available to protect them self they would.
Originally Posted by jongle
January 21st, 2008 12:32 PM
Unfortunately, I have no problem believing the statistic that your daughter quoted to you.
These days (and for all time, really) women have been viewed as disposable pleasures and ego boosters. They have been targeted by creeps since man discovered we ARE weaker, gentler, and more trusting.
Some of us have learned we can still be gentle, small, weak and trusting and still kick the crap out of anyone who tries to take advantage of that; some just haven't gotten it yet.
The trick is figuring out that having boundaries that you will not let someone cross without penalty of life or limb does not make you a bad, violent or horrible person. It just means you've reached down and gotten in touch with your instincts to SURVIVE!
It looks like your daughter tapped into those God given instincts.
January 21st, 2008 02:05 PM
There are a couple of studies that show this statistic.
American Journal of Public Health investigated the deaths of women who died while pregnant or within a year of being pregnant between 1991 and 1999 and found that the leading cause of pregnancy-associated injury deaths was homicide. In other words, you're more likely to die as a result of murder than from complications in the pregnancy.
They also stated: that it's "difficult to assess whether women are generally at an increased risk for homicide during pregnancy and the year following childbirth because homicide is the leading cause of death among black women and young women, regardless of pregnancy."
Last edited by BlackPR; January 21st, 2008 at 02:06 PM.
The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.
January 21st, 2008 02:13 PM
January 21st, 2008 02:19 PM
Slow down a little.
Originally Posted by limatunes
I would qualify that by adding 'in some cultures'.
We don't teach demographics any more.
BTW - I am sure it is on purpose.
January 21st, 2008 02:50 PM
Agreed... In some cultures and in some twisted minds.
Originally Posted by GBS
Thanks for the clarifier!
January 21st, 2008 05:19 PM
sounds like you raised a good kid
Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
(Murder begins where self-defense ends)
January 21st, 2008 05:39 PM
You have a daughter who knows what's what and has claimed her life as her own! Good for her and good on you as her Dad! You did a good job raising her Sir. You should be proud.
I think she is going to be just fine.
January 21st, 2008 05:45 PM
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
January 21st, 2008 07:22 PM
Thanks for the nice words folks. Much appreciated. She was easy to raise.
I had no idea. That is just plain awful. Shameful. There is no reson for it. No justification in any way shape or form. Period. Babes with bullets, girls with guns, I'm all for it. Don't take any crap from anybody.
Originally Posted by BlackPR
I'm going to dress up her shotgun. It's a Mossberg 500 Cruiser/Persuader 20-Ga, 18 1/2" barrel, cylinder bore, 3" chamber. We got rid of the pistol grip because it isn't legal in NY. She wouldn't use it if it was legal.
I'll get the side saddle shell holder
SIDE SADDLE SHELL HOLDER at Brownells
Front tritium bead
SHOTGUN NIGHT SIGHTS at Brownells
and the forearm with a light
SHOTGUN FOREND WEAPONLIGHT at Brownells
The light only costs a little less than the shotgun itself! But positive ID is worth it in spades. I have a rail light on my HD glock.
That will make it as well equipped as I know how to make it - by the time she leaves she will be as well trained as my friend, a retired SWAT training NCO, can make her.
I'm still testing ammo, but so far the Federal Premium 3" magnum with #2 buck sounds like it might be the best for that gun - I have some on order, also some Federal Premium 2-3/4" shells with #3 buck. She can practice with inexpensive birdshot. We will see how the defense loads pattern in that gun. So far the Winchester Super-X with #3 buck make a bigger pattern (8" circle for most of the pellets, extreme spread of 12") than I'd like at 25'. 'm thinking the copper plated #2 buck would tighten it up a bit - I'd like a 6" circle with maybe 8" extreme spread.
She was a HS and College athlete - her sport was Rodeo (5 events in HS, 3 in college). Trust me on this, she understands training. She has a "game face". We have 2 months before she moves. The shotgun will be second nature by then. I would not want to down range of that girl if she was in combat mode.
She will miss having her CHL like she has here, and her GP100, but the Mossberg will work just fine for HD. She can apply for a permit after she has been up there for 6 months, but it will take another 6 months to process.
The shotgun will stay there even after the permit is issued - it's hers, a gift from me. Her Mom gave her the GP100, I gave her the CT grip for it.
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