Dummy with a gun - Page 2

Dummy with a gun

This is a discussion on Dummy with a gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; He had a bullet, but it was in his shirt pocket....you all know Barney wasn't allowed to carry a loaded weapon!!...

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Thread: Dummy with a gun

  1. #16
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    He had a bullet, but it was in his shirt pocket....you all know Barney wasn't allowed to carry a loaded weapon!!


  2. #17
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    While I agree the guy was a dummy, I also think there is something to be said for anyone with the courage to try and prevent two nuts from hurting each other.

    Would the opinions change if: a) the guy had a license; b) there was a disparity of force--say size and age; c) one guy pulled a knife?

    Legally, this one is cut and dry. Morally---hey, I think the old boy did the right thing. His interference, empty weapon and all, may have saved one of the two from serious injury.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    It never ceases to amaze me that people can't understand the simplest of principles. What's so hard to grasp about the concept of self defense??? If this guy had applied for a carry permit, I doubt he would have listed his reason as "I want to be a vigilante or play cop."
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    While I agree the guy was a dummy, I also think there is something to be said for anyone with the courage to try and prevent two nuts from hurting each other.

    Would the opinions change if: a) the guy had a license; b) there was a disparity of force--say size and age; c) one guy pulled a knife?

    Legally, this one is cut and dry. Morally---hey, I think the old boy did the right thing. His interference, empty weapon and all, may have saved one of the two from serious injury.
    I strongly disagree. Disparity of force? I bet the prosecuting attorney would have a field day with that one.

    "Your honor, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I will demonstrate for you today that this man chose to use deadly force in a situation that didn't involve him, and against a total stranger in defense of another total stranger."

    As far as the moral argument goes, look at your "knife" scenario; how could our hero have known that the daughter of the man with the knife hadn't been raped by the guy he was stabbing? How do we know he didn't pull the knife because the other guy reached for a .357 Magnum? How do we know that the knife wasn't pulled because he happened to know that the other guy had spent time in prison for going on a murderous rampage just because someone had looked at him the wrong way?

    See what I mean? If the situation doesn't involve the defense of yourself or your loved ones, it's best to leave it alone.

    It's much different if you see a crazy with an AK47 mowing down kids on a playground. Two guys in a road rage fight? I would sit back and watch for the entertainment of it.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    What a jerk...he failed to show his CCW badge!
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  6. #21
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    Another moron who straps on a gun and now thinks he is a crime fighting super hero or deputy. With multiple felony charges pending, I don't think he'll be allowed to own a gun much longer, once convicted.

  7. #22
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    A nut case.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    He had a bullet, but it was in his shirt pocket....you all know Barney wasn't allowed to carry a loaded weapon!!


    lmao lmao
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  9. #24
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    Disparity of force

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    I strongly disagree. Disparity of force? I bet the prosecuting attorney would have a field day with that one.
    While it is generally a bad bad bad idea to intervene in someone else's problem, the law does permit intervention to prevent grave harm to a third party. If this incident involved a disparity between the parties, e.g., one pulled a knife, or there was a big difference in age and size, or gender figures in too, it would not be illegal to intervene.

    It would be unwise certainly. And I don't dispute that.

    The guy who is in trouble is in trouble because he was apparently illegally carrying, and the situation (the law always is applied to specific situations) didn't involve either a disparity of force or a grave threat to either participant.

    Still, there is a darn good chance that the arrested person's "stupid" act broke up the fight. From this point of view, "he did good."

    Sometimes what is wise, what is moral, and what is legal are not all the same thing.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    While I agree the guy was a dummy, I also think there is something to be said for anyone with the courage to try and prevent two nuts from hurting each other.

    Would the opinions change if: a) the guy had a license; b) there was a disparity of force--say size and age; c) one guy pulled a knife?

    Legally, this one is cut and dry. Morally---hey, I think the old boy did the right thing. His interference, empty weapon and all, may have saved one of the two from serious injury.
    What if the guy walked up on me as I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a thug that was attacking me with a knife? As someone else stated with his CCW badge and a loaded gun in hand who do you think he is going to shoot first? I am not going to volunteer to jump into a situation that I just happened on. I was not aware what transpired just 30 seconds prior. It is too risky on all accounts. jmo

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    While it is generally a bad bad bad idea to intervene in someone else's problem, the law does permit intervention to prevent grave harm to a third party. If this incident involved a disparity between the parties, e.g., one pulled a knife, or there was a big difference in age and size, or gender figures in too, it would not be illegal to intervene.

    It would be unwise certainly. And I don't dispute that.

    The guy who is in trouble is in trouble because he was apparently illegally carrying, and the situation (the law always is applied to specific situations) didn't involve either a disparity of force or a grave threat to either participant.


    Still, there is a darn good chance that the arrested person's "stupid" act broke up the fight. From this point of view, "he did good." maybe+1

    Sometimes what is wise, what is moral, and what is legal are not all the same thing.
    There is not enough info to justify or not, lets say it was a 30 year old man that had already knocked down a 60 year old man. you pull up and see him kick him in the head twice, what would you do? let him kick him 3-4-5 times ? then sit back and watch if the guy makes it? anyway it's not you he's kicking
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Gun owner period.
    Gun crime period.
    Guns on the street example, period.

    It can and if past action reflects future perception will be used against us three ways to Sunday.
    Us includes everyone not just lawful CCW types.

    - Janq
    When you stated "US", I thought you were referencing legally licensed permit holders. I did not realize you were stating the entire gun owner population. But I would just fire back that he was not legal to carry if they attempted to use this incident as a stepping stone. This was an extremely minor event and involved criminal activity outside of his misjudgement on pulling his unloaded firearm. Would you really want this guy to be the "poster child" for your cause?

  13. #28
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    Intervening

    Quote Originally Posted by cdwolf View Post
    There is not enough info to justify or not, lets say it was a 30 year old man that had already knocked down a 60 year old man. you pull up and see him kick him in the head twice, what would you do? let him kick him 3-4-5 times ? then sit back and watch if the guy makes it? anyway it's not you he's kicking
    Whenever intervening in someone else's bizz you run the risk of completely mistaking what is actually going on. E.g., in the scenario above the 60 year old could be a fugative and the guy doing the kicking a bondsman.

    What ifs can be generated for ever.

    In the specific situation that started the thread, and taking the story at face value, there was no justification for the use of lethal force.

    Still, by stepping forward the fight was stopped. I want to give the guy some credit for doing a civic good deed, and possibly preventing greater harm.

    Do I think it was the wise thing to do? No.
    Do I think the arrested guy acted lawful? No.

    But, I think he did the morally right thing trying to stop the fight before someone got hurt. And as it turned out, he accomplished that.

    It isn't behavior to be emulated, copied, etc., but just maybe, just possibly, it was really the right thing to do--misgivings and all.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Still, there is a darn good chance that the arrested person's "stupid" act broke up the fight. From this point of view, "he did good."

    Sometimes what is wise, what is moral, and what is legal are not all the same thing.
    Yes, indeed. The fight was ended. No shots were fired. No one was severely injured.

    The man is definitely in legal trouble but, all in all, a good outcome.

    As to how it reflects on us and gun owners in general, I think it is very little, if any at all. Most people do not know this less than minor inicent occurred and anyone who reads the Brady site (except for us) already agrees with their stance.

  15. #30
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    58 years old and in all that time didn't acquire a single ounce of common sense!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
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