Campus radio debate on AZ campus concealed carry law, need advice
This is a discussion on Campus radio debate on AZ campus concealed carry law, need advice within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Use real life examples.
On October 16, 1991, Hennard drove his 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's Cafeteria at ...
January 23rd, 2008 10:50 AM
Use real life examples.
On October 16, 1991, Hennard drove his 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's Cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway in Killeen, yelled "This is what Bell County has done to me!", then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff with a Glock 17 pistol and later a Ruger P89. About 80 people were in the restaurant at the time. He stalked, shot, and killed 23 people and wounded another 20 before committing suicide. During the shooting, he approached Suzanna Gratia Hupp and her parents. Hupp had actually brought a handgun to the Luby's Cafeteria that day, but had left it in her vehicle due to the laws in force at the time, forbidding citizens from carrying firearms. According to her later testimony in favor of Missouri's HB-1720 bill and in general, after she realized that her firearm was not in her purse, but "a hundred feet away in [her] car", her father charged at Hennard in an attempt to subdue him, only to be gunned down; a short time later, her mother was also shot and killed. (Hupp later expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car, rather than keeping it on her person.) One patron, Tommy Vaughn, threw himself through a plate-glass window to allow others to escape. Hennard allowed a mother and her four-year-old child to leave. He reloaded several times and still had ammunition remaining when he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after being cornered and wounded by police.
Reacting to the massacre, in 1995 the Texas Legislature passed a shall-issue gun law allowing Texas citizens with the required permit to carry concealed weapons. The law was sponsored by State Rep. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, R-Lampasas, who was present at the Luby's massacre and both of whose parents were shot and killed. The 1995 Texas law, signed by then-Governor George W. Bush, became part of a broad movement to allow U.S. citizens to easily obtain permits to carry concealed weapons.
The Appalachian School of Law shooting occurred on January 16, 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law, an American Bar Association accredited private law school in Grundy, Virginia, United States. Three people were killed and three others were wounded when a disgruntled former student opened fire in the school with a handgun.
This shooter was stooped by other armed students.
I recommend a few more examples from the news to juxtapose shooters unopposed and citizens defending themselves. Those who here your voice and are not convinced by your reason will never be convinced. This is not your audience. Just remember you will get through to some who are still open-minded, so target that audience in your mind.
Be prepared for reductio ad absurdum arguments, and ad hominem attacks against you and gun owners generally. Antis like to talk about the penises of gun owners, so be prepared for that. Just try to steer the debate back inside the Ort Cloud and stay on topic no matter how weird your opponents get.-Jay
January 23rd, 2008 10:55 AM
I think you came to the right place. Summary of points that always come up in articles and are the foundation of what we live by:
Right to self defense: basic human right, and what is the reason for trying to limit the means by which one defends him/her - self. There is a difference in philosophy in liberal circles; relying on the government or the police to provide protection for you (their philosohy) and you being responsible for your own safety (us). We are first responders, and guns are instruments in our safety.
Gun control: it doesn't work; by definition criminals don't obey the law, so it is therefore illogical that any gun control law will prevent crime (ex. gun free zones). Cities/countries with gun bans still see high levels of violent crime or see higher levels after bans. Gun control only affects law abiding citizens.
Find the ABC John Stossel report on gun control (on youtube I think). Some very good info in that and quotes some good studies.
January 23rd, 2008 02:41 PM
According to the web site where it is broadcast, kjack.org, the show is American Ignorance and it is on from 7-9 p.m. on Sundays. Feel free to tune in if you want to listen to history in the making.
January 23rd, 2008 03:16 PM
Keep a level head, you don't want to appear to be a lune. Your opposition will use either false statistics or feel good with no substance reasoning. While you quote the NRA they will quote the Brady organization. Try to not refer to the NRA as they will claim their information is bad, just as you can do about the Brady bunch. Be prepared to jump on any totally off the wall statistics and challenge their validity. For example when I am confronted with, "Most women if using a gun for self-defense will have that gun taken away from them and used against them" I say, "Oh yea! When has this happened? How come I never read about it in the paper if it happens so often?" That usually shuts them up. Good luck and we would love a link to a podcast if possible.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
January 23rd, 2008 04:29 PM
That dreary old liberal line, "You must be really afraid if you have to carry a gun", will not doubt be thrust at you. It is not appropriate to respond, "If I have a gun, what do I have to be afraid of?". Try not to say that, for it only sets them off.
January 23rd, 2008 04:46 PM
I would suggest:
1. Be respectful, even though they probably don't deserve it. Say "sir" and "ma'am."
2. Avoid any righteous anger, no matter how tempting it might be when they say something utterly ludicrous.
3. Be the "All American Boy." Have a big smile and be friendly.
4. Be well-spoken. Avoid "well," "um," "you know,", etc....
5. Above all, let them come across as the raving lunatics, not you. Be calm and collected (see Rule #1 above).
If you have a chance to offer any sort of closing statement, say something along the lines of, "You know those people who were gunned down in cold blood at Virginia Tech, in that gun-free campus paradise? I bet their loved ones would give anything right about now to have had a CCW holder handy with a gun that day."
"I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."
January 23rd, 2008 05:00 PM
Hello cannot give much more info then what was prev stated. but good luck.
January 23rd, 2008 05:00 PM
Check the NRA website, they have data collected from the Justice Department which supports our conclusions.
NRA-ILA :: Articles
NRA-ILA :: Articles
Good luck and give 'em hell! Respectfully, of course!
January 23rd, 2008 07:50 PM
A better response which I'm sure others can improve.:
Originally Posted by Gary Crumrine
You are right, I am scared that I have to carry a gun in our society. I'm even more afraid that I may have to use it. That's why I carry a gun to protect my family and myself. I do what I can to help improve society by living by my values and teaching them to my children by example.
HELGA: Where are you going?
HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...
January 26th, 2008 08:18 PM
The show has been moved to March 9 (tentatively). That may change if the recent legislation proposed in House right now passes, making it legal for me to carry on campus. That would be pretty sweet....
Anyone still interested in listening? Let me know and I'll keep you informed on the radio show.
January 27th, 2008 12:13 PM
I'm wondering though if this could lead to some backlash by your professors,since most are leftover hippies. Hopefully yours won't hold it against you(or may even agree!).
That being said,be very specific in what you say. Stick to CCW on campus,don't get into national gun laws,exc. This bill in AZ is only about that, so remind the libs that unless the campus is going to have metal detectors at every entrance/exit,armed security in every room, they cannot guarantee your safety(refer to VA Tech,since this is linked). Get right down to it-BG walks into classroom,starts shooting. Would it be better to have a fellow classmate with the means to shoot back or will you be OK waiting for campus security/cops while people are executed? Ask them if there's an incident like this how long would it be before security/cops arrive? Ask them if they'd be for random dorm or personal searches on campus to stop any "incidents"(probably not,the ACLU would be all over the school and the lib hippies wouldn't like their pot stash being found).
Also, you didn't seem to be too thrilled about the host and you said there's 2 libs opposing you. I've seen this too often, a "fair" discussion, 2,3,or more libs against 1 conservative(like Bill Maher's show). Good luck! If it's possible to have the interview posted somewhere,let us know!
"The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
Nunn v. State GA 1848
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