Went to the hospital today...

Went to the hospital today...

This is a discussion on Went to the hospital today... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My son had hernia surgery today. Yes, the same son who wants to be special forces yet literally passes out at the site of his ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Went to the hospital today...

    My son had hernia surgery today. Yes, the same son who wants to be special forces yet literally passes out at the site of his own blood. But I digress.

    Now it is my understanding that I can carry in Oregon everywhere but Federal buildings, court houses, etc. So when I took him there at 5:30 AM (I am thinking he was not going to need anesthesia, but I digress again) I had my gun concealed.

    As I was filling out the paperwork, this was in the hospitals Conditions of Service:

    Safe Environment
    Weapons or other dangerous objects, illegal drugs, and drugs not prescribed by an individual's health care provider are not permitted on the premises. Hospitals obligation to provide a safe environment must override the individual's right to have these items in his/her possession. Hospital reserves the right to search individuals or rooms and to confiscate such objects upon reasonable search.

    Hmmm. If they saw my weapon, could they confiscate it, or would I just be requested to leave peacefully?

    Oh, and by the way, while I was waiting for the procedure to be completed, I was working on my laptop. They had WiFi, so I logged in to their network. I tried to access this forum but was denied by their filters because this was a dangerous and unapproved website.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I don't know how binding that confiscation statement would be. Leave that one for the lawyers on the forum.

    It also seems odd that a public WiFi would have blocked websites.
    Sticks

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    See also Sheep

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    As it stands, businesses that post, in Oregon, can ask you to leave. If you stay, you may be subject to arrest for trespass.

    Some businesses are pushing the limits, indicating that by posting a sign you've been formally notified, hence if you get "caught" then you're criminally trespassing. For my money, that's way beyond the limits and definitely not the intention of the state's legislature when they crafted the firearms carry statues.

    But, in this case you're describing an agreement for services, which you're reading then signing. On the face of it, your reading, signature then acceptance of service effectively constitutes agreement to the terms of service. Though, it would be a good question for a competent attorney as to whether such service terms could legally cover a hospital's actions if those actions ended up being forcible search of your person or confiscation of your property. I'd be willing to bet you could defend against forcible search not performed by a legitimate law enforcement person. They'd have to take it from you and, if you refuse, it would have to be by force ... and that would essentially be an assault on your person.

    Though, with your property, consider what's legally allowed in cases of bad parking and the towing company's ability to haul your car, in that the fact you park there constitutes agreement to the terms of service.

    Interesting question. IMO, it's time to speak to your attorney. (Me, too, apparently, since I'm frequently at local hospitals doing the bung hip two-step.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  4. #4
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    Be careful... some larger hospitals and their holdings are their own municipality with their own laws and police departments.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Be careful... some larger hospitals and their holdings are their own municipality with there own laws and police departments.
    Don't tell me they have "Home Rule" hospitals now. We are falling back to mid-evil feudal systems. How can a hospital override state law, especially a very strong preemption law?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rljohns View Post
    Don't tell me they have "Home Rule" hospitals now. We are falling back to mid-evil feudal systems. How can a hospital override state law, especially a very strong preemption law?
    Easy, they are not overriding state law at all... local law can be more restrictive than state law, and local law cannot allow something forbidden by state law.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    [I]Weapons or other dangerous objects, illegal drugs, and drugs not prescribed by an individual's health care provider are not permitted on the premises.
    Anyone know where I could get a prescription for a weapon? Does my health insurance cover the cost? I think I have $10 co-pay.


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    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    It would seem that if you were signing it, it would be akin to the employer/employee situation; if it were your son signing it, I doubt it would have any legal power at all. But... my law training is, shall we say, inadequate...

  9. #9
    Member Array Kevan's Avatar
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    I was once a security guard at a large hospital.

    Nobody likes an ugly scene, and a hospital is very much a business. They have nothing to gain by using force if you're willing to simply walk out and cease carrying your weapon in their holy and criminal free paradise.

    Maybe when some deranged misfit shoots the joint up one day, they'll rethink their strategy--those who live through it, that is.
    I went to buy some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

  10. #10
    Member Array phoneguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    My son had hernia surgery today. Yes, the same son who wants to be special forces yet literally passes out at the site of his own blood. But I digress.

    Now it is my understanding that I can carry in Oregon everywhere but Federal buildings, court houses, etc. So when I took him there at 5:30 AM (I am thinking he was not going to need anesthesia, but I digress again) I had my gun concealed.

    As I was filling out the paperwork, this was in the hospitals Conditions of Service:

    Safe Environment
    Weapons or other dangerous objects, illegal drugs, and drugs not prescribed by an individual's health care provider are not permitted on the premises. Hospitals obligation to provide a safe environment must override the individual's right to have these items in his/her possession. Hospital reserves the right to search individuals or rooms and to confiscate such objects upon reasonable search.

    Hmmm. If they saw my weapon, could they confiscate it, or would I just be requested to leave peacefully?

    Oh, and by the way, while I was waiting for the procedure to be completed, I was working on my laptop. They had WiFi, so I logged in to their network. I tried to access this forum but was denied by their filters because this was a dangerous and unapproved website.
    Yes I work in a hospital also and they have WI FI there. You are using the severs at the hospital and they block any thing from porn to guns.
    If you need the answer on if you can carry in the state of OR. in a hospital please check a forum on open carry dot org, go to the state you are interested in and ask those guys. In wash state you can concealed carry in a hospital even when they have a scary sign with scary wording about guns. The only place they can legally say no guns
    is in a hospital with a lock up ward for the mentally handy cap.
    To close for missiles, switching to guns.

  11. #11
    Member Array Locopelli's Avatar
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    A sign does not create police powers merely by its posting. My posting a sign would not allow me the right to detain anybody against their will and force an inspection.

    Unless your state statue indicates a specific crime is committed by failing to adhere to a "no weapons" sign on private property, the most you risk is a trespass/disturbing the peace charge IF you make a big deal out of being asked to leave. If they do not let you leave, then they are unlawfully detaining you and are the ones risking being charged, which is unlikely unless the act is truly egregious.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoneguy View Post
    Yes I work in a hospital also and they have WI FI there. You are using the severs at the hospital and they block any thing from porn to guns.
    But do they block sites that promote obesity, and do they have a Food Court with a lot of unhealthy food choices available? It's their right tho, so I'll almost stop whining.....

    Hospitals crack me up - the bastions of "safety" and "health, and some of them around here have fast food companies polluting the arteries of their guests!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Easy, they are not overriding state law at all... local law can be more restrictive than state law, and local law cannot allow something forbidden by state law.
    Okay, In Colorado local law can't be more restrictive, at least on CCW. Denver was allowed to "limit" open carry where posted.

  14. #14
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    I can only speak of my own experience at the hospital here. About four years ago I was having chest pains and then my left arm started to hurt. I drove myself to the hospital not even thinking I was armed. When the doctors realized what was happening (heart attack), They put me on a gurney and started to undress me. When they realized I had a gun on me they stopped what they were doing and called security. Security removed my weapon and wanted me to sign for it but there was not enough time since they needed to rush me to surgery ( which didn't happen till 14 hours later). Opon leaving the hospital, we stopped by security and I retrieved my belongings. No problem here at all.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rljohns View Post
    Okay, In Colorado local law can't be more restrictive, at least on CCW. Denver was allowed to "limit" open carry where posted.
    Well then state law prohibits local making more restrictive law then doesnt it... Denver was probably grandfathered in.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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