If anyone wonders why we carry, here's a reason...

This is a discussion on If anyone wonders why we carry, here's a reason... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Tangle - well - sounds at least as tho things worked right ways around - I feared the opposite. In principle then so far this ...

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  1. #16
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    Tangle - well - sounds at least as tho things worked right ways around - I feared the opposite.

    In principle then so far this appears a good ''armed citizen'' event.

    Post the link if you think of it - tho if thread is veering as you suggest then maybe not such good reading!
    Chris - P95
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  3. #17
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    Enter at your own risk:

    Edited to add:

    See the Gary F and TravisABQ posts about 7 and 8th posts down on page 1.

    http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?...t&pagenumber=1

  4. #18
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    Thank you Sir!





    `
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #19
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    Here's another thread that looks better:

    http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?...hlight=walmart

  6. #20
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    Referring to our excellent discussions in our very own "Hotel situation." regarding intervention. Just think of the risks this guy accepted to save the life of an innocent stranger. He could have had the attacker turn on him, he could have hit an innocent bystander, he could have shot the victim in the process and who knows what else. His life as he knows it may be temporaily suspended via the liberal criticisms of liberals, law suits, attorney costs, etc.

    It is also interesting that he shot the attacker 5 times.

    I wonder what I/you would have done?

  7. #21
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    Thx for extra link Tangle - that does indeed bring things up to speed nicely.

    Indeed - what would we have done?

    Without any wish to take ego trips or play the hero (I ain't one!) - I have the feeling that I would have attempted to intervene. Hard to observe a stabbling dispassionately so as simply ''not to get involved''.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Tangle I would say also thats why we are are paranoid and aware of our surroundings. I can't carry at work, but I am always aware. Those people should have been more aware. Further, look at a persons hands when they approach. I pray their families heal.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Referring to our excellent discussions in our very own "Hotel situation." regarding intervention. Just think of the risks this guy accepted to save the life of an innocent stranger. He could have had the attacker turn on him, he could have hit an innocent bystander, he could have shot the victim in the process and who knows what else. His life as he knows it may be temporaily suspended via the liberal criticisms of liberals, law suits, attorney costs, etc.

    It is also interesting that he shot the attacker 5 times.

    I wonder what I/you would have done?
    Ah, but this is a very different situation from the hotel scenario. In this one, you are already armed and present (vs disarmed and remote from the shooting with a clear avenue of escape, where taking action requires you to exit the building, retrieve a weapon, return to the building and voluntarily involve yourself), you have visual confirmation of what is happening (vs hearing gunfire and not being able to see where the incident is occurring), you are not employed by the company and violating a company prohibition (so, free of that particular compromise), and well within most laws regarding the defense of the life of another.
    - Tom
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  10. #24
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    I'm just curious, the bad guy was shot 5 times, did the good samaritan have a 5 shot revolver? or a 15 round semi auto something or other?If it were me, I'm not sure I would have stopped at 5 rounds were I carrying a hi-cap 9 mm semi auto. Especially if he was coming at me like one of the accounts said.I usually carry a 5 shot 637, but have an option of carrying a 92fs.I'd hate to be caught short at a time like that.You never seem to get that kind of detail in any news article about those kind of "pro gun" events.God damned liberal media!

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    Ah, but this is a very different situation from the hotel scenario. In this one, you are already armed and present (vs disarmed and remote from the shooting with a clear avenue of escape, where taking action requires you to exit the building, retrieve a weapon, return to the building and voluntarily involve yourself), you have visual confirmation of what is happening (vs hearing gunfire and not being able to see where the incident is occurring), you are not employed by the company and violating a company prohibition (so, free of that particular compromise), and well within most laws regarding the defense of the life of another.
    Good points, but we really don't know where the armed citizen was when the attack started. He could have been two isles over safely away and might could have easily avoided the whole incident, well except for living with knowing that he did nothing to prevent a murder.

    In the hotel incident, even though we don't know what is going on, we could use some stealth and a tactical approach and try to find out what's going on.

    As far as violating company prohibition, it becomes a matter of whether peoples' lives are more important than company policies. Many states have a competing harms law that means you can break one law to circumvent a greater harm.

    There's an informal definition of a warrior - "He moves toward the gunshots." While certainly not a universal truism it does hold true many times.

    John 15:13
    Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

  12. #26
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    Wow, we really live in a messed up world nowadays
    "There are more things on this planet with fangs, claws, poisons, and scales, than there are things that are warm, fuzzy, and full of love. It's just a simple fact." - James Keating

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Good points, but we really don't know where the armed citizen was when the attack started. He could have been two isles over safely away and might could have easily avoided the whole incident, well except for living with knowing that he did nothing to prevent a murder...
    Sorry, I missed your reply and have been out of town for the last several days. According to witness accounts, and the reason I said he was right there, the armed citizen was on the other side of the counter from the person being attacked, and jumped the counter to stop the attack. It is a very different situation from the hotel scenario, and the two really can't be compared.

    I can't debate law or the Bible with you. In my response to the hotel scenario, I considered the duty to retreat given a clear avenue of retreat. I also applied the scenario to my life where I live, and here, the law would take a dim view if I left the scene, got a weapon, returned to the scene and involved myself in an armed conflict in which I was not an original combatant and not unavoidably involved.

    I said the hotel scenario was an unpleasant one, and it is. If you judge my response selfish or cowardly, there is little I can do about it, except to reverse myself and what would that accomplish? I was frank in my response, and would respond no differently, today.

    I think there is more to being a warrior than running towards gunfire.
    - Tom
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    ...I said the hotel scenario was an unpleasant one, and it is. If you judge my response selfish or cowardly, there is little I can do about it, except to reverse myself and what would that accomplish? I was frank in my response, and would respond no differently, today.
    I don't judge you at all; I don't consider you selfish or a coward. The position you expressed is held by every tactical trainer I have ever had. The FOF scenarios they set up are just about guaranteed to get you killed if you intervene.

    Some choose one way and some another. Most probably think they know what they'd do, but we really don't know until we live it.

    Sometimes I overdo things or word them poorly and wind up saying more than intended or something unintended. My apologies for offending you. That wasn't my intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    I think there is more to being a warrior than running towards gunfire.
    That's certainly true; the statement only addresses one of the characteristics of a warrior.

    Some will be choose to do nothing and not get involved, as tactical training dictates. Some will choose to do something and will become involved. The man in Walmart is an exceptional person. Would we do what he did? The proper tactical response as I've been taught repeatedly is to not intervene like this guy did. But then, there's more to us than tactics.

    Sorry Tom, no offense was intended; please accept my sincere apology.

  15. #29
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    Tangle, no offense taken. This has all been good, meaningful dialogue. The decision whether or not to intervene is a difficult one. Sometimes intervention may be considered overzealous, while a decision not to may be considered overcautious. I hope I would do as the guy at Walmart did in such a situation. You are right. We don't really know what we would do until it happens to us.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  16. #30
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    So Tom, we ok, I hope?

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