What do you depend on ?

This is a discussion on What do you depend on ? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ya can't even legally shoot off fireworks in Pennsylvania anymore! QK - got a link to any legal stuff on that? Keep hearing about it ...

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Thread: What do you depend on ?

  1. #16
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    Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    Ya can't even legally shoot off fireworks in Pennsylvania anymore!
    QK - got a link to any legal stuff on that? Keep hearing about it but not yet seen a definitive bit of law.

    All I guess tho part of the increasing ''nannyism'' - something else ''too dangerous'' for mere peons to manage safely!

    Mind you - there'd have to be 1,000's of cops available for July 4 and New Year's to stand a chance of catching and prosecuting - not to mention the out of state ''real'' fireworks that folks ''aquire''! LOL
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  3. #17
    Member Array JustinM's Avatar
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    IMHO you get what you pay for. I'd rather own a HK than a Kel-tec, and a Strider knife over a "no name" knife bought at K-Mart.
    "There are more things on this planet with fangs, claws, poisons, and scales, than there are things that are warm, fuzzy, and full of love. It's just a simple fact." - James Keating

  4. #18
    Member Array Jim_Linch's Avatar
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    Price and custom guns have nothing to do with reliability. They work or don't work. Your job is to prove that through extensive training before you need to depend on them with your life. I just had my dream gun made this year. Full custom Browning High Power, but after 6 months of trying to adapt my grip to keep myself from locking the slide open early, I've gone back to a Glock. Years of IPSC and the "high thumbs" grip can not be unlearned fast enough for me and to have an early slide lock on the range is nowhere near as inconvenient as in a gun fight. So, I'm back to a gun that allows my mode of operation, one that I shoot better than any other, and one that I won't cry over if I trash it's finish in training for a real world jam.

    You are the weapon, you must determine and prepare for battle, you must be willing to win at all costs. If this is not your goal, then please reconsider why you carry a gun.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    True, there is that old saying that goes "you get what you pay for". Well folks, I'm here to tell you that sometimes it's true and sometimes it's not. There are many fine, reliable, well made knives and guns available that can be considered inexpensive (relative to others of their kind) and there a more than a few high end, big buck guns and knives that I wouldn't own if they were given to me because they aren't reliable, they are priced way too high (you're often paying for a name only) for what you get or I just don't like the look or feel of the gun/knife. I suppose it's all a matter of personal preference and taste.

    The real "problem" I often see when it comes to a weapon is what I call price or brand snobbery. There are quite a few people that swear by the "fact" that if a gun doesn't cost at least $500 - and often 3-4 times that much - and isn't made in Germany or a custom shop here in the USA, it's junk. I personally think that as long as your choice of gun (or knife, or car or anything else you buy) does what you want it to do and you're happy with it, it doesn't matter if it's made in Fiji or it cost $200 or $2,000. Bottom line is, my choice of anything, be it clothes, car, house, gun or whatever it may be, is MY choice and shouldn't be the subject of ridicule simply because it's not as expensive, has the name recognition or has the current "in" status of something else. As long as it does the job it was intended to do and I'm satisfied with it, to each their own is my motto.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  6. #20
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    Array Tangle's Avatar
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    Well, what were the results of the ICE torture testing? That was probably one of, if not the, most extensive torture test ever. And which guns prevailed? Consider this quote from Mr. ERHARDT, Director of Marketing for Sigarms:

    "...If you still doubt this, or can't belive that your beloved H&K, S&W, Beretta, Springfield Armory or Glock could possibly lose to the SIG SAUER just do this simple test. Buy 3 million rounds of the same test ammo and shoot it through the pistols. Earmark 250,000 for the SIGs. Once you have completed the testing you'll know what we and the DHS and USCG know." - ERHARDT

    The ammo used in the test was "hotter" than all manufacturers expected so it placed maximum demands on the guns. Maybe the gun does make some difference.

    The point is no matter how good you are, how much you improve, how aware you are, how tactical you are, if the time comes when your life depends on your gun it better do what you expect it to. After all, if awareness and tactics were so sufficient, we really wouldn't need to carry a gun would we? We'd just out aware and out tactical them.

    If Sig and H&K prevailed against the other manufacturers in the ICE tests, surely that means something.

  7. #21
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    I believe the thoughts of Jeff cooper, better a 1st rate marksman with a 3rd rate gun than the other way around. Heck i don't go in for the fancy stuff, just what works. No night sights or lasers for me.

  8. #22
    Member Array LPguy's Avatar
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    I heard saying once that went something like "The only person that can miss with this gun is the fool with enough money to buy it"

    For example, a week ago my 11 year old daughter was consistently a better shot with my dads Marlin 39A, lever action .22 ( vintage circa 1950, so it weighs a ton ) than my brother in law was with his brand new, pimped out, auto load .22 complete with laser sight.

    As for knives, I say if you don't know how to handle one in self defense, don't carry one for that reason! It will only get you killed faster.

    Brandishing a knife at an attacker will only keep him at bay for so long before he lunges for your knife hand or worse yet, draws his own weapon.

    Mike

  9. #23
    Member Array ramtough47's Avatar
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    Good post. This why i carry a GLOCK,it will go bang" everytime i pull the trigger!!

    Knives,now that is a different story. I'm stilling trying to learn the Blade.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    I do use a variaty of firearms. I think of them as tools, each fits a purpose. Like Deniro said in the movie "Ronin",.."Its just a tool, in the toolbox"

    Jframe, for when its hot and I only wearing a tee shirt and pants. Large revolver, for open carry at work. Auto, for everything else. T/C Contender, is for handgun hunting.

    I hunt different game in different conditions. So rifles work the same way.
    I cant varmint blast at 500y with a shotgun. Nor, would I use a .22-250 to hunt big game. Although my 6.5x55mm fills both rolls, but is useless with birds.

    Price is irelevent to me. I care only about durability, relyability, and accuracy.

    I like to collect knifes. So the sky is the limmit there.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    If training with whatever works regardless of make were really the point, then name, brand and maker wouldn't matter, now, would it? Reverse snobbery is still snobbery. It seems wrong to me to judge someone's choice of weapon based on cost, regardless.

    In the end it is about choosing the right tool for the job, and developing the ability and skill to use it well. What makes a particular tool "right" is going to be different for different folks.

    Personally, I would not choose for a knife fight, the knife I would use for slicing an apple or whittling a stick. I could make it work, if pressed, but I would not consider it ideal for the task, and no amount of training is going to turn a utility knife into an ideal fighting knife.

    The best tool in the world is useless without the ability and skill to use it. Training can go a long way toward helping one compensate for less than ideal conditions and tools, but the right tool in the hand of someone who knows how to use it makes that person most effective. I feel safest and most confident carrying the tools I have trained with and know best. Whether someone else thinks I spent too much or too little is meaningless.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  12. #26
    Member Array LPguy's Avatar
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    The best tool in the world is useless without the ability and skill to use it. Training can go a long way toward helping one compensate for less than ideal conditions and tools, but the right tool in the hand of someone who knows how to use it makes that person most effective. I feel safest and most confident carrying the tools I have trained with and know best. Whether someone else thinks I spent too much or too little is meaningless.
    Well said!!

    Mike

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    I haven't paid over $500 for a pistol, $65 for a knife or a $1000 for a shotgun or rifle (OK that last one is a bit much, but it was a splurge authorized by my wife, so I really had to). There is a used Kimber .45 that I can get a good deal on that may up the handgun number a bit...

    My "toys" have all kinds of whiz bang or experiments on them, but the pratical stuff is basic and I use/practice with them a lot.

    By the way, a first rate marksman with a third rate gun may have more problems than the other way around - he expects the bullets to go where the sights are when the trigger is pulled.

  14. #28
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    Hello. Like many folks here, I find myself carrying handguns that for me have proven:

    1. Reliable
    2. Accurate
    3. Easy to handle accurately at speed and w/o conscious thought on how to get into operation (a function of practice)
    4. At or above my own personal "power" requirements (For me, the bare bones minimum is the .38 Special +P from a 2" snub.)

    My 24/7 "always" gun is a well-worn S&W Model 642, just as it came from the factory, but shot often in practice so that I can be effective with the little thing.


    Not fancy, this revolver has proven reliable. It does require frequent practice (for me) to remain proficient in its use. For me, the carry load remains the Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P.

    I recently purchased a Ruger SP101 3 1/16" bbl .357 revolver. Like the 642, it is stock and I have no plans to alter it. I did smooth the sharp edges along the sides of the trigger face and polished the guts a tiny bit. I have been amazed at how well this gun works for me. A point in its favor is that it uses the same J-frame speed loaders as my "always" gun.


    Right now, my carry load is Remington's mid-range .357 125-gr. Golden Saber. It is the most I can handle with one hand, something that might occur in a defense situation.

    When I tote an automatic, it is usually either a SA .45 Mil-Spec or a Browning Mk III 9mm.


    This Mk III has Spegel delrin grips and I bobbed the hammer and removed the magazine disconnect. I also use a conventional Wolfe 18.5-lb recoil spring rather than the factory 17-lb, as I shoot mostly warmer 9mm loads. For me, the factory sights are fine.I currently use either Winchester 127-gr. +P+ or Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P. Standard pressure loads I've had good luck with have included Federal 115-gr. JHP, Speer 124-gr. Gold Dot, and Remington 124-gr. Golden Saber. Most folks don't care for them, but I have also seen Hornady 124-gr. XTP's do very good work on animals from deer down. This gun has proven utterly reliable.


    This .45 Mil-Spec has had its internals upgraded by triggersmith, Teddy Jacobson. The hammer has been bobbed and reshaped to avoid hammer bite and I beveled the sharp edges of the GI grip safety. For me it is not as pleasant to shoot as one with a wide grip safety, but it's fine for the couple of hundred rounds I shoot through it per range session. The gun has roughly 2900 rounds through it so far. It has not yet malfunctioned. I was fortunate in that the fixed sights on this particular pistol are dead bang on for me at 15 yards. I'll use the factory sights as they work fine for me. For defense, my 1911's are loaded either with Winchester Ranger 230-gr. JHP or Remington Golden Sabers in the same weight.

    My choices might not be best or even good for another person, but these are the primary handguns I find myself using for self-protection these days.

    Best.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    I used to make compromises about what I kept around hoping it'd be good enough. I've unfortunately dealt with enough incidents now to know that if I need to use it, the last thing I'll be thinking about is money.

    My last thoughts aren't going to be "Gee, well, darn, I wish I'd brought my Sig" or "Well, crap, I should have put something with a detachable magazine in the trunk instead of this milsurp range toy."
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Mr. Camp I agree with your carries. I have SW model 37 and Springfield Milspec. My always carry is the 37. Good choices....
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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