September 2nd, 2005 01:02 AM
The ''bluff' factor?
If faced with an armed person - there is bound to be -even briefly I think - the thought. ''Will he - won't he'' - shoot that is.
If I am faced with a gun in my face I will have to assume it is - a) real, b) loaded, and c) Gonna go bang! I thusly would respond accordingly.
However, some BGs it seems, looking back over histories, are not too smart. They have a quaint notion that brandishing a piece guarantees compliance. So it might be, with some victims but - I think we are different.
Far as I am concerned, if someone with something that even looks like a gun - BB or real - is ''in my face'' I have to assume the worst. Cops have this same dilemma and anyone thinking that a dummy or BB can be determined from distance and in a stress situation is planning a Darwin meeting!!
I cannot fathom why even when fake guns are used - a perp' does not instantly when challenged - lay down the piece and comply - unless of course they have chosen suicide by cop! I never, even as a good guy, want to be seen holding my piece by a cop!
I do tho just hope I never have to err and think a cell phone is a gun - but there again - it just could be. The time for analysis will most probably be brief - very brief. That behoves us to be careful - very careful. Do we - don't we, shoot, that is?
It is to be hoped none here ever have to be in this dilemma.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
September 2nd, 2005 01:11 AM
1952 - 2006
To even consider whether or not a gun is real, let alone will he use it, is asking for a quick funeral. There is nothing that will get you killed faster than spending time determining whether or not a gun is real or whether or not he means to use it.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
September 2nd, 2005 03:58 AM
Perhaps it's just my two tours in Iraq, but once a person crosses the line and becomes a threat there's no reason to give him a second chance, or a chance to turn and fire at me. Will he/ won't he is irrelevant. Where the line is and what constitutes a threat will vary, but once it is crossed in my mind there is only one response.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
September 2nd, 2005 06:10 AM
If someone points a weapon, I consider it a prelude to the dance that comes next.
I think I'll cut in if possible. I hope they intended to tango, but well, they shouldn't have picked me as a partner if they didn't. :)
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
September 2nd, 2005 07:57 AM
Kind of beings to mind the "Tom Cruse"(sp?) clip that was posted the other day, taking out the two "muggers". If the guy has a gun, and you can use your's first...... It's in your best interest to do so.
I also remember a story out of New York about a guy being killed by the NYPD when it looked like he was pulling a gun, it was his wallet...... So you do have to be careful in what you do on both sides of the gun.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
September 2nd, 2005 10:10 AM
Notions of Deadly Force
First of all, the very first thing I ever learned about armed self defense is that just because you're armed with a firearm, it doesn't equate to a magic wand! Your gun cannot "make" anybody do anything! You can shoot somebody and effectively stop them from doing something, but you can't "make" anybody do anything they don't wish to do!
Originally Posted by P95Carry
If I have assessed a threat to my person as being immediate and lethal, I'm moving from a state of Condition Orange to Condition Red...well that means it's combat. I'm going to draw, acquire the sight picture and fire. Period. I will not use my firearm to threaten anybody. I will not use it to "deter" anybody. Use of a gun in such a situation (here in Florida) is a violation of law. Even the display of a gun is considered by the law the use of deadly force. That's why when I shoot, I'm aiming for an "alpha zone" hit: Center mass, torso or head. I'm not aiming for a kneecap! The judge will say: Well you used a gun, so you used deadly force, but you shot him in an nonlethal area...so deep in your heart you must not have really believed deadly force was required.....
Next, private citizens are not held to the same standard as the police officer performing LEO duties. WE don't have to yell "freeze!" We don't even have to wait to be fired upon first. All we have to show is that a reasonable person under similar or identical circumstances would behave in a similar manner. Cops have to follow specific rules and policies. The funny thing (well ironic) is that cops have a substantially worse hit record in self defense shootings. On average citizens are eleven times more accurate than cops in their gun handling proficiency.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
September 2nd, 2005 10:28 AM
"Bluffing" will get someone killed. And; should only be used when you are "disadvantaged", and may allow you to be fatally decisive. :chairshot
September 2nd, 2005 02:13 PM
The thing is, you don't know what he is going to do, and you're already behind because his gun is out. Doing nothing puts us totally at the BGs notion. I think the best survival tactical is to distract, move, and fire, with distract being an option of opportunity.
September 2nd, 2005 08:47 PM
Not complicated and I steal from another trainer;
Distract... his focus
Disrupt... his plan
Disable... his ability
Destroy... his will
Distraction puts you inside his OODA loop, and gives you VERY temporary advantage, which you cannot afford to lose. Your non compliance disrupts his plan, etc, etc.
You are now in the situation of forcing your opponent to react to you.
September 2nd, 2005 09:18 PM
I once had a shoplifter draw a knife on me.
some BGs it seems, looking back over histories, are not too smart.
I looked at it curiously and said "dude, that isn't a real knifeHe actually LOOKED at it I then proceeded to quickly When I had him subdued of course the last step Followed suit.
I'm gonna use those KC....Nice detail!
September 3rd, 2005 12:13 AM
Old Rules Still Apply
I think the old adage, "don't point the gun unless you intend to shoot" is very apt. The only real reason to draw and point the weapon is to shoot it.
September 3rd, 2005 01:19 PM
KC, could you please give us a credit for the 4Ds list?
Oh yeh? Well this was sent from the scary black electrical box under my desk, so there!
"It aint how good you shoot, it's how cool you look doing it." [Fred Sayer 1994]
Colt XS, Star PD
September 8th, 2005 03:40 AM
Sorry, If the BG pulls anything that I can ID as a weapon; I will shoot!
September 8th, 2005 07:53 AM
No time to stop and ask"is that real" if someone is engaging ya.
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