More Guns on Campus? - Newsweek's take

More Guns on Campus? - Newsweek's take

This is a discussion on More Guns on Campus? - Newsweek's take within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; More Guns on Campus? | Newsweek National News | Newsweek.com More Guns on Campus? By Suzanne Smalley | Newsweek Web Exclusive It was a sickeningly ...

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Thread: More Guns on Campus? - Newsweek's take

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    More Guns on Campus? - Newsweek's take

    More Guns on Campus? | Newsweek National News | Newsweek.com

    More Guns on Campus?
    By Suzanne Smalley | Newsweek Web Exclusive


    It was a sickeningly familiar scene. A student-gunman opened fire Thursday during a lecture at Northern Illinois University, killing five and wounding 15 before turning the gun on himself. The deadly spree was the fifth school shooting this week—and a traumatic reminder that for all the efforts to improve campus security nationwide since the massacre at Virginia Tech last year, students and faculty remain disturbingly vulnerable.

    A nonprofit organization called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus would like to change that. The group, whose 12,000 members nationwide include college students, faculty and parents, champions legislation that would allow licensed gun owners to carry concealed weapons on campus, in the hope that an alert and well-trained citizen could stop a deranged shooter before he or she could do serious damage. According to the National Conference on State Legislatures, 13 states are currently considering some form of "concealed carry" legislation aimed at campuses. Utah is the group's model; after a state Supreme Court ruling found that the state university had violated a law allowing permit holders to carry concealed weapons, the school agreed that guns could legally be carried on its grounds. Some states, like Colorado, do not explicitly ban licensed students and faculty from carrying hidden weapons onto school grounds, though most universities in such states impose restrictions of their own.
    ~Mike F.
    http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
    http://www.a-human-right.com/
    "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."


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    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    there were abt 150 stundents in the class at that time, as per NBC news..and if only one stundent had a personal defense weapon, very possibly lives could have been saved! The NBC reporter said that it was over in seconds but campus police were on scene in minutes! DOH!

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    Permitting legal carry is no big guaranteed solution - but it sure is the best option IMO.

    Fact (IMO) - there is NO stopping a lunatic gunman from getting into an educational facility ----- at least no practical way unless there is a curtain of armed gurads dealing with the whole perimeter - and that ain't gonna happen!

    One guy - with guns - can effectively storm an establishment - no metal detectors or unarmed security blowing a whistle and shouting ''stop'' can do anything. Banning guns of course also would do nothing except hurt good people ....... someone wanting a gun ... deranged idiot or career bad guy - will in this great nation always but always, find/procure a weapon.

    So - what does that leave? It leaves a need to be able to reply in kind ... which means having at least some legally armed people within the school community ... just possibly then in a position to if not stop an attack - limit it to very small levels ... end result, lives are saved. So logical - well, to us.

    There will always be nut-jobs .. seems too that not just mental instability can be a factor per se but - as seems the case with the current shooting. A guy who came off med's 2 weeks ago - maybe too fast - and finished up being unstable.

    Who knows but - you can't legislate to stop dangerous people.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLewall View Post
    there were abt 150 stundents in the class at that time, as per NBC news..and if only one stundent had a personal defense weapon, very possibly lives could have been saved! The NBC reporter said that it was over in seconds but campus police were on scene in minutes! DOH!
    That's what struck me. The campus security acted in 3 minutes.................... But it wasn't enough.

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    There's a choice to be made

    Officials in charge of our colleges and universities are going to have to decide whether to tell their students that it is OK to be lawfully armed if they so desire; OR if they hear shooting or see a gunman, just dive under the desk and pray (OOPS!, can we pray in school??).

    I don't remember seeing more than one or two fights when I went to college. I am having a hard time understanding why a student or anyone for that matter would want to commit these type of atrocities. However, here we are with these harsh realities and I know for sure I wouldn't want to be a "sitting duck", with no means of self defense to help me and maybe others survive.

    As a student faced with certain death I would much rather be able to increase my odds of survival by shooting back!

    Also, if the perpetrator of these shootings new that there would be several students with guns somewhere within the 150 present, this fact alone might deter some acts.

    Jim
    "There is no problem that cannot be solved through the proper use of high explosives"
    G. Alan Foster

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I'm still not convinced that these shootings are not arranged by the Brady Bunch.

    The amount of recent shootings coming up on an election year, the sheep are going to stampede to one extreme or another.

    Abolish all guns (yeah, that'll work) or Abolish all gun restrictions on citizens with no criminal history.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLewall View Post
    there were abt 150 stundents in the class at that time, as per NBC news..and if only one stundent had a personal defense weapon, very possibly lives could have been saved! The NBC reporter said that it was over in seconds but campus police were on scene in minutes! DOH!
    I agree! Those cowards usually take the easy way out with a self inflicted shot if they are engaged.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Permitting legal carry is no big guaranteed solution - but it sure is the best option IMO.
    That's exactly right. Life <> guarantees. Never has. Never will. Unless you fund your own personal private bodyguard service, you've got yourself, only, to rely upon should crime turn its eye on you. The ONLY practical tool is the one you've got ON YOU at that moment. Can't be using what you've had taken from you.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Permitting legal carry is no big guaranteed solution - but it sure is the best option IMO.
    Certainly the experience of the state of Israel would tend to bear out your assertion.

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    Rant time! heres a place sorry for typos

    Coming from rural Virginia, growing up in high school we always had an armed resource officer. He was present anytime there was a crowd, assmebly or gathering. Our local sporting events, you name it...theres deputies or a resource officer there. These were usually the case to prevent light physcial altercations, and let me say in the presence of an armed officer there wasnt any fist fights.

    If america doesnt wake up and realize that they cannot afford to pay for armed secuirty in every setting or wise up and allow concealed carry what will the solution be?!!

    I find myself going to get a haircutt at my local mall, oops swat team and bomb squad...sumbody left a note that they were gonna blow the place up. And the first thing that comes to my mind is reading the door removal of constituational rights sign....(not sure why that isnt there anymore, thank you Mr Pierce!!) but yeah I needed to vent this...

    I think they should revamp these signs with big orange letters

    WARNING
    GUN FREE ZONE
    NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DEATH

    Its kinda like the risk of death from fire disclaimer that used to be in movie theaters.

    If i had been in that auditorium in IL and allowed to carry I know Id had a fighting chance if somebody came down the row where id been hiding or wherever i may have retreated to.


    Maybe they should put air powered taser rifles that can be used by anyone in little glass cases everywhere, In the event of shooter break glass.. please for heavens sake do something... I mean the goverment isnt gonna protect you, nether is the establishment, and both dont trust you to be able to do it youeself. Then you got whacko sentators that try to ban bullet proof vests from civillans (whole nother rant there), its like there saying you cant wear your seatbelt, you might be tempted to cause an accident knowing you may survive, but dont worry help will be there soon.
    "What if? If not, who needs seatbelts, life rafts, and fire extingishers. Sure theres other ways, if thats what you want... I know ill be alive, dry, and not on fire!"

    G17, G19, G36, PPK/S
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    I'm still waiting for one of these 'nuts' to try and storm a police station and start shooting...I wonder what would happen?

    Mmmmm...a college classroom, or a police station...I wonder what the difference is?????????

    Idiot politicians...
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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    I think we need to focus on the idea that students should have the right to defend themselves from someone who is trying to kill them, instead of the same old argument of 'gun control' vs. 'RKBA'.

    Ask an anti to Imagine that they are a Secret Service agent, on duty protecting a wery waluable life, namely Hillary. A violent madman has stormed in, locked the door and is stabbing people with a knife. Everyone is getting slashed. He is headed toward Hillary. It is their sworn duty to protect her. In their pocket are several objects, among them a fire extinguisher, a knife, a rope, a shoe, a gun, a flashlight, a telephone, a baseball bat, pretty much whatever might be useful. What is their best option to defend Hillary from the madman with the knife? If there's something better than a handgun, don't you think a SS agent would be carrying it?

    If they think they would only need a knife to defend Hillary from a madman with a knife, show them some pictures of people who have 'won' knife fights. Our real argument is about having the natural right to defend ourselves in the best, most practical way possible.

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    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I'm still waiting for one of these 'nuts' to try and storm a police station and start shooting...I wonder what would happen?
    This exact thing happened in the town that I grew up in. Some madman murdered some of his family members and then stormed the police station. One LEO was injured and survived to return to duty after a few weeks. Everyone in the police station ran out. He actually had control of the police station long enough for us to hear about it on the news before it was over. The police eventually re-took their station. The bad guy left in an ambulance, recovered from his injuries, was tried, convicted, sentenced to death and eventually executed. At least that is my best recollection.

    So even storming a building full of people carrying guns does not guarantee a quick death.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Ask an anti to Imagine that they are a Secret Service agent, on duty protecting a wery waluable life, namely Hillary.
    Equal protection under the law. Absolutely. If every gubmint official goes without, then the People could give it a try, for a time. How 'bout that? What's good for the goose and gander, eh?

    In a sense, that might be what's required in order to realign the official view. I am fairly certain that official-issue pixie dust works about as well as home-brew, in that regard. In short order, once it's known the officials all sit inside roving victim disarmament zones, the ruse will no longer survive the weight of its own contradictions. Hm. Perhaps that'll work ...
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I think we need to focus on the idea that students should have the right to defend themselves from someone who is trying to kill them, instead of the same old argument of 'gun control' vs. 'RKBA'.
    Let me make a suggestion - no one is going to make a successful argument to the general public about allowing "students" to carry at "a school". For most people, "students" equals "kids". The way to win the argument - if there is one - is to stick to the line of reasoning we all know best...

    All adults should be allowed to carry tools they can use to defend themselves against attack, regardless of the fact that some of those adults may also be students. Knives & OC are great, but handguns are best. Nice and simple. Of course, college & university students are adults, and the Constitution has already guaranteed our right to keep & bear arms.
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

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