My Reponse to an Anti Article in the UK University Newspaper.

This is a discussion on My Reponse to an Anti Article in the UK University Newspaper. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The stupid editorial can be found here: COLUMN: Lesson from campus shootings: Lax gun control root of problem - Opinions And here's my reponse: Originally ...

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Thread: My Reponse to an Anti Article in the UK University Newspaper.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    My Reponse to an Anti Article in the UK University Newspaper.

    The stupid editorial can be found here: COLUMN: Lesson from campus shootings: Lax gun control root of problem - Opinions

    And here's my reponse:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy
    I realize that gun control is naturally going to be an emotional topic for individuals, but it’s long time that people started looking at the real numbers and not at the latest media article trumping up the sad angle for more ratings. A study by renowned criminologists Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz (Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun. 1995) have found that several hundred thousand to millions of crimes are prevented each year by CCW users, yet somehow this gets glossed over because of a few incidents performed by criminals who didn’t follow the law.

    The idea that this should be left up to police is very questionable. I’m sure that the police would protect us all if they could, but logistics make this impossible. Even when they do respond in “seconds” it is often too late for at least one individual. No one that is advocating the allowance of concealed weapons thinks that it will automatically fix the issue, but at the very least individuals have the chance to decide for themselves their fate. If we look at the Supreme Court case Warren vs. D.C. we find that the police aren’t even required to protect the individual, so forcing people to depend upon them for protection is ludicrous. This is a pretty common projection tactic from people with irrational views on guns, in that they feel that they couldn’t properly defend themselves so they project it onto gun carriers that they couldn’t properly defend themselves. Which, ironically, is normally contradicted later by saying guns are too easy to get and use by the bad guys.

    If “irresponsible” gun control regulations were the culprit, you’d think we’d see more violence in places that allow the carrying of these weapons. I find it rather convenient myself that these sick people get a carte blanche at educational facilities because they are so-called gun free zones. When in reality the only people affected by such regulations are people that actually follow the law. AKA, private citizens and not criminals.

    The idea that firearms are at fault for so many deaths in the 15 to 24 age group is also misleading. That group also happens to contain the largest percentage of gang members in urban areas of the country, which is why it’s set to 15-24 to make the biggest impact upon an argument. Even though under 18 cannot purchase any firearms and under 21 cannot purchase handguns in most states in America. Meanwhile, the Concealed Carry demographic of people have some of the lowest crime rates in the nation. Yet, somehow, when they strap on a firearm, all of this goes out the window and they become bloodthirsty monsters if they step foot on University soil. Despite of course, Utah’s complete lack of issues with this subject. It’s an irrational argument from people that haven’t taken the time to look at the facts. In Florida, 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued between October 1987 and April 1994. During that time Florida recorded 18 crimes of that group of 221,443 people. Most of them were not gun related crimes either. This is found in a study by John Lott in his book, Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns. Yet somehow, this group continues to be demonized by people who know nothing about the facts. Millions of Americans carry concealed firearms on a daily basis in this nation without murdering anyone. You’ve probably walked past dozens of them this past week and didn’t even realize they were armed.

    Your statement that these people could purchase murdering weapons online is factually incorrect. The Federal NICS system prevents that. A firearm may only be shipped to another firearms dealer (FFL holder) and all of this is kept in paperwork logs that are inspected by the BATF at the very least annually. If you had bothered to check your facts at all, you wouldn’t have said something that was so patently false. And seriously, complaining about accessories purchased without a background check? That would be like complaining that someone purchased a car bumper without a license.

    Besides your irrational calls for even more gun control when the gun control we’ve had hasn’t done anything in the slightest to stop crimes, I find your telepathic opinion that concealed carry permit holders don’t care about their defense but the ego boost to be insulting and childish. I’d recommend that you take the time to actually look at the issue instead of forming an irrational argument and insulting a group of people that are one of the most law abiding demographics within this state and across the nation in states that allow their citizens to properly defend themselves.

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    I bet they don't print it since the guy that wrote that article is the Opinions Editor. But, at least I had fun writing it.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array imatt's Avatar
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    Oh no doubt they won't post it. Can't have someone upstaging the OpEd with facts!

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    Well thought out argument, maybe he will actually look at facts.

    Probably not, but you pointed out is errors. Maybe it will get printed
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

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    Member Array MadDog's Avatar
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    Very nice letter. They won't post it becasue you know they don't want that to get out. Im sure you brused is ego tho.

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Here's my response:
    One thing is quite obvious reading your commentary; You are a liberal who would trade essential liberties for a little temporary safety, to take the words of Ben Franklin. Want to know what the real cause here is? 40 years of liberalism and no morals in our society. it surprises me that you don't see this, because your bio at the bottom of your article claims you are a "history and journalism" student. Amazing how little you grasp of real history, but then thats easy when you aren't paying any real income taxes yet, going to college on scholarships or mom and dad's money.

    I will comment on your article though, without getting personal: What you fail to understand in your liberal utopia is that the real world is a jungle; and in this jungle, as in nature if you look like food, you will be eaten. Period. By creating "gun-free" zones, you created feeding grounds for mass murderers. It is no different than putting convicted child molesters in charge of daycare facilities for children. When faced with someone like the Virginia Tech or Northern Illinois Cowards, you have two simple choices: you can pray and beg for your life, or you can take action, stand up and fight like any real american would. By the way, by real Americans, I am talking about Americans like the ones who stood up on Flight 93. Or the off duty policeman who pinned the gunman down during the Utah mall shooting incident. Or the college student who ran back to his vehicle and retrieved his weapon to stop another school shooting at a Virginia Law school. or the brave security guard/parishioner who stopped yet another madman in a church recently.

    Our soldiers know what it is to defend others, and many of them are now attending universities like the one you attend now, only I am willing to bet they have a more intimate understanding of real history than you ever will. You state also that most people who carry a concealed weapon do so not out of a real need for personal protection, but just because they want to feel powerful, a sense of superority as you put it.

    I have carried weapons for the past 20 years, and I can tell you that I don't feel any more superior than the next guy. when my wife chews me out for something (you will learn about this too someday grasshopper) my ears still burn and I buckle under to make her happy again regardless of whether the .45 is on my hip or not. When my 2 year old son fall down and scrapes himself, I still cringe and get out the bactine and band-aids, and give him plenty of hugs afterwards. This is because I have a strong moral compass, and conservative attitudes that were born of a lifetime of hard work and sacrifice in places like the Texas oil fields and the power industry where I now work.

    The biggest difference between you and I though, is that I walk without fear no matter where I go. Because you look like food and I don't.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Senior Member Array Saint77's Avatar
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    An excellent response!

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    New Member Array austin-tatious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    The stupid editorial can be found here: COLUMN: Lesson from campus shootings: Lax gun control root of problem - Opinions

    I bet they don't print it since the guy that wrote that article is the Opinions Editor. But, at least I had fun writing it.
    There is a place to put comments on-line "Be the first to comment on this story". Put your response in there. It may not show up in print, but at least the few people who view the story on line will read it.

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    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Well done to both SammyIAmToday and edr9x23super. Hopefully your responses will get published.

    Best line of the day:

    "The biggest difference between you and I though, is that I walk without fear no matter where I go. Because you look like food and I don't."

    Love it!

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    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    I just couldn't help myself. I replied and submitted via their form and sent this:

    (sigh) here we go again..... In reading the above commentary, I feel compelled to respond, which is normally something I don't bother doing. However, in reading such a misguided and deceptive piece of "journalism," especially written by someone who claims to be studying such a subject, sometimes a response is warranted.

    So... allow me to put this into terms that even a journalism major can understand (hopefully). Let's look at the typical unarmed college campus as a microcosm of an unarmed society. So, we've now banned all weapons, both legally and practically, and we're left with a safe, gun-free utopia, right? Right? Oh, I'm sorry, you must not read newspapers, being a journalism student and all that.

    The answer, which should be clear to anyone with enough logic ability to add four plus four, is a respounding "NO." If you actually were to read some newspapers lately, you would clearly see that the "unarmed" status of college campuses does just the opposite of the intended effect; it disarms the innocent, while leaving them prey to anyone who decides to sneak a gun in. What is so hard to understand about that?

    Statistical Fact: A concealed carry permit holder is five times less likely to commit a crime than non-permit holders.

    Statistical Fact #2: A concealed carry permit holder is less likely to commit a felony than a uniformed police officer.

    Concealed carry permit holders are:

    1. Background checked
    2. Trained
    3. Fingerprinted (in most cases)
    4. Stable

    Sorry about that. I should have realized that facts are the nemesis of those who are entering the field of journalism, but sometimes I just can't help myself.

    One closing thought.... I'll bet that the families of these victims, gunned down in these "blissful gun-free zones," would give their right arms to have had a legally-carrying citizen on hand who might have prevented, or at least greatly lessened, these recent tragedies.

    Have a nice day.
    It said that my comments must be "approved" and that it might take up to 20 minutes for them to appear. I'm not holding my breath.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

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    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    All of a sudden the site seems to require registration for the link to work...anyone else experiencing this?

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    New Member Array manwayla's Avatar
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    Send an e-mail to the editor in chief keith smiley. Ultimately he is responsible for allowing this to go to print.

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    New Member Array Halifax's Avatar
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    Bravo Sammy, a very well thought out rebuttal. This article seems to be written with no sources, backup or logical persuasion, hmm. Keep up the good work.

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    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    I am reminded of the Chevy Tahoe that took the lives of 5 high school students lately. And of the thousands who take the lives of many people every year: PEOPLE, we must stop this insane carnage!! We must outlaw the possession of automobiles in our society!! The loss of so many of our fine young people every year must come to a halt. These autos must be registered, have identification numbers, and be highly governed to stop this unnecessary loss of life!!(Oh I'm sorry,,,,, we already do that.)
    Just as with guns, I will give $1,000,000.00 to anyone who can/will bring me one of the two items that has loaded itself/fueled up, exited the safe or garage, and gone in pursuit of an individual, with the expressed purpose of killing said individual, of it's own volition and without the aid of a human hand.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I'm a UK alumnus from way back-in-the-day. It boils my blood (and chills my bones) to read such an ill-informed, pollyanna opinion about the issue of School Shootings published in the UK newspaper. Self-reliance & personal responsibility are honored traditions among Kentuckians. Yet, even in the once-conservative South, we've allowed those firm foundations to crumble. Regardless of the amount of gun legislation or ownership restriction...there will always be madmen & predators. Always. And such sociopaths will always exercise their twisted mayhem upon those victims least able to defend themselves. Always. It is in the mind of these miscreants that the danger lies, not in the tools with which they exercise their evil. "Gun-free" zones only provide this evil an arena in which to be more freely exercised. One, single, armed, clear-thinking individual has the capability to stop the continuation of a mass-murdering spree. One self-reliant, personally responsible Concealed Carry Permit Holder can, in their own defense, shoot & stop the threat to themselves and those around them. Why we would, as a society, tacitly allow ourselves & our fellow citizens to become voluntary prey to such openly murderous aggression is beyond my ability to understand. Allow legal carry on college campuses by qualified faculty, staff and students. Then watch these cowardly, demented murderers be smart enough to move to the next most convenient "gun-free" zone.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    In case the site is now requiring registration to view the Editorial, here it is pasted in.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiEditorial
    The tragic shooting at Northern Illinois University on Thursday that left five dead plus the shooter has instigated a new round in the campus concealed-weapon debate.

    Just like after the Virginia Tech shooting last year, proponents of concealed weapons jumped onto the story as if it were a godsend. Donning the I-told-you-so attitude, they claim that had students been allowed to carry concealed weapons on NIU's campus, the tragedy would not have happened. Therefore, they conclude, UK and other universities should allow students and faculty to carry concealed weapons legally on campus.

    First of all, the notion that students should carry concealed weapons in class to stop campus shootings is ludicrous. It is the job of the police to protect us from these killers. And many of us would undoubtedly feel safer if the police, rather than gun-carrying students, were handling such a situation.

    If anything, the NIU shooting only increased my confidence in the police's ability to react to and manage school shootings quickly. According to a Friday article on CNN.com, the NIU police responded within seconds after the first shots were fired and placed the campus under "lockdown situation" four minutes later.

    Anyone not buried under blind zeal for firearms can recognize from these mass shootings that guns, not firearm restrictions, are the root cause of the tragedies. More specifically, irresponsible federal and state gun-control regulations armed these killers to commit atrocious acts of murder.

    Many proponents of gun rights fail to, or more often refuse to, realize that guns already cause too many deaths in this country, especially among our age group.

    Firearms caused 21 percent of deaths among people in the 15 to 24 age group, only second to motor vehicle accidents, according to a 2002 report by National Center for Health Statistics.

    Banning private ownership of guns would be too radical to be accepted at any level of the government, and it's not necessary. For many Americans, owning guns for hunting, protection or the joy of collecting is deeply rooted in the culture, and that can be respected. Instead, we should look to tighten gun control to prevent potential criminals from accessing these weapons.

    Loose regulations on firearms and even looser enforcement made these tragic shootings possible. Both shooters from the NIU and Virginia Tech shootings bought their weapons legally despite having histories of mental illness; not only that, they both purchased gun accessories online.

    When people with alarming backgrounds can purchase murdering weapons legally at the click of a button, no one in this country should feel safe.

    More importantly, because the weapons available to these criminals include multi-shot shotguns and handguns with high-capacity magazines, these killers were able to murder innocent people on a mass scale.

    Shotguns with higher than two-round capacity should be outlawed in all of the United States. Such action may bring some minor hindrance to avid hunters, but it would eliminate a fearsome killing tool for the criminals.

    Handguns are especially dangerous in the hands of criminals because they are easily concealed and have a high round capacity. Hunting and self-protection (with the exception of concealed-weapon carriers) don't require a handgun, and frankly, I am willing to bet that most of the concealed-weapon carriers wanted the license not for self-protection, but for the self-sensed superiority from carrying a gun. Allowing handguns to flow loosely in the market only increases the dangers in our society. Therefore, regulations on handguns should be particularly strict.

    Allowing guns on campus is not the answer to campus shootings - tightening gun control is. If the politicians can only look beyond campaign contributions from the National Rifle Association's lobbyists, they'll see that the reckless handling of gun control must be stopped.

    Linsen Li is a history and journalism junior. E-mail lli@kykernel.com.

    I went out of my way to leave all emotion out of my article except my anger at him saying I CCW for the ego boost. I figured it was the only hope for it to be printed.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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