Above the Grand Canyon?

Above the Grand Canyon?

This is a discussion on Above the Grand Canyon? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We are in the initial stages of planning a trip to Arizona to pick up an RV the first part of May. So while there ...

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Thread: Above the Grand Canyon?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Above the Grand Canyon?

    We are in the initial stages of planning a trip to Arizona to pick up an RV the first part of May.
    So while there we are going to the Grand Canyon, and the Meteor Crater, Painted Dessert, and the Petrified Forest.

    I know that you are not allowed to have a concealed carry firearm in the National Parks as it is now.
    But my question is what about if you're taking a plane tour of the Canyon?
    IE getting on a plane and flying over and through, around the Canyon? Is it legal to carry there assuming the charter company doesn't state that it is prohibited.

    I would prefer to hear from someone who has been there and done that, because I am not sure that the charter companies don't have regulations placed on them by the park service that might not be publicized.
    I don't really want to have to come out and ask them, hey is it OK if I carry my gun.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Call em.

    Sounds like a very specific question(I don't think the park service owns the air you'll be occupying above the park). Best to call the charter service and ask them though to get their answer. You don't have to give them your name over the phone. They should be glad to inform you of all of their policies.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I doubt the no national parks carry law would apply to it's airspace, however without the permission of whomevers name is on the charter certificate, you'd be violating federal aviation law.

    14 CFR §135.119. Under this regulation "no person may, while on board an aircraft being operated by a certificate holder, carry on or about that person a deadly or dangerous weapon, either concealed or unconcealed. Section 135.119 does not apply to LEO"s or to "Crewmembers and other persons authorized by the certificate holder to carry arms". Thus, although this regulation appears to limit the possession of firearms, if the charter operator grants you permission, either directly or within its operations specifications, you would be exempt from this regulation and able to carry firearms subject to any other applicable statutes or regulations.
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    I think you're OK with the park, but I think the FAA wont like it to much. Its a commercial aircraft....
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    Where is the air charter service based? If you board the aircraft on NPS land, then the no firearms rules apply.


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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    Where is the air charter service based? If you board the aircraft on NPS land, then the no firearms rules apply.
    Or if you take off elsewhere, then crash at the park and have to walk out...
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    You may want to look deeper, in many areas, an RV is considered your dwelling.
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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    As a pilot, I can confirm the FAA prohibition. I would certainly check with the carrier, but I would be almost certain that this is a defininte no-no!
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    Can't carry on a commercial flight.
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    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    You cannot carry in the national park, and probably not the airspace above it. If you will PM me I can give you some cost saving tips about this area. I have done work at the canyon and know all the tourist traps to avoid.
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    Member Array aquanomics's Avatar
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    I'd also check firearms law for Indian reservations as there are many acres of them in northern AZ.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    BTT

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I know that you are not allowed to have a concealed carry firearm in the National Parks as it is now. But my question is what about if your taking a plane tour of the Canyon? IE getting on a plane and flying over and through, around the Canyon? Is it legal to carry there assuming the charter company doesn't state that it is prohibited.
    Grand Canyon make hotel reservations in advance. and if going there via 40 take the way up west of flagstaff.
    Seating on the planes is kind of tight, and it is a private company last time there I saw no signs on the doors but that was 2 years ago. Try the helicopter instead, it cost more but is a better ride.
    Petrified and the Painted desert are beautiful places and if you go during the right time of the year (avoid the weeks around the Sturges bike gathering)
    Meteor crater is privately owned, While in the area go see volcano ( El Malpais)national monument there are several private owned tour areas there as well.

    Yellowstone, a must see as is Cody (east entrance) and the Buffalo Bill museum plan on a couple of days there and go see the rodeo while you are there. Bears scare me so I did have my special insurance policy with me when on the trails of Yellowstone. West entrance is OK and a nice area to visit but the North is probably the nicest of the 3 allow 3-4 days for Yellowstone and make hotel reservations in advance.

    Don't forget Wall SD and the Corn Palace, all private.

    Mount Rushmore is a must see at least once again avoid the area during the Sturges bike time at least the week before and the week or two after, hotel's it will be a problem to find a room.

    I've been to these areas and more (went on a national park drive) although there is no signage in many of the national parks prohibiting firearms, (but there are banning metal detectors go figure) CCW is restricted, but basically due to their issuing of hunting license for specific game that is a problem (you have to get on a waiting list), under certain conditions guns are allowed, but this is park specific. In some cases even if you lock your CCW in the trunk separate from ammo (as per federal law for transport) you may still be in violation just being there.

    Lets all call our reps and push for the NP CCW carry bill to pass.
    Last edited by Sheldon J; February 21st, 2008 at 11:30 AM.
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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Talking one more thing...

    Take lots of film or digital media, you will see stuff that will take your breath away, N try and hike Bright Angel trail (about 9 miles each way), allow lots of time at least 10 hours, the trip down is fast, hit the trail early just at sunup, take lots of salty snacks, and ask but water was available every mile or so on the trail so all you need is something to carry it in, N get a good walking stick you will need it. If you do walk the trail it will be an expierence you will remember the rest of your life and will never regret it.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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