National Park Carry: MERGED

This is a discussion on National Park Carry: MERGED within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bush Administration to Propose New Rule Regarding Right-to-Carry in National Parks Friday, February 22, 2008 Fairfax, Va. - At the request of the Bush Administration ...

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Thread: National Park Carry: MERGED

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    National Park Carry: MERGED

    Bush Administration to Propose New Rule
    Regarding Right-to-Carry in National Parks
    Friday, February 22, 2008
    Fairfax, Va. - At the request of the Bush Administration and 51 members of the United States Senate led by Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID), the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service prohibition of firearms on agency land will be revised in the following weeks. The National Rifle Association (NRA) is leading the effort to amend the existing policy regarding the carrying and transportation of firearms in National Parks and wildlife refuges.
    "Law-abiding citizens should not be prohibited from protecting themselves and their families while enjoying America's National Parks and wildlife refuges," said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. "Under this proposal, federal parks and wildlife refuges will mirror the state firearm laws for state parks. This is an important step in the right direction."
    These new regulations, when finalized, will provide uniformity across our nation's federal lands and put an end to the patchwork of regulations that governed different lands managed by different federal agencies. In the past, only Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Forest Service lands allowed the carrying of firearms, while National Park lands did not.
    The current regulations on possession, carry or transportation of loaded or uncased firearms in national parks were proposed in 1982 and finalized in 1983. Similar restrictions apply in national wildlife refuges. The NRA believes it is time to amend those regulations to reflect the changed legal situation with respect to state laws on carrying firearms.
    The effect of these now-outdated regulations on people who carry firearms for self-protection was far from the forefront at the time these regulations were adopted. As of the end of 1982, only six states routinely allowed citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Currently, 48 states have a process for issuance of licenses or permits to allow law-abiding citizens to legally carry firearms for self-defense.
    The move for regulatory change by the Administration will restore the rights of law-abiding gun owners who wish to transport and carry firearms for lawful purposes in most National Park lands and will make the laws consistent with state law where these lands are located. Fifty-one U.S. Senators from both parties sent a letter to the Department of Interior late last year supporting the move to render state firearms laws applicable to National Park lands.
    "These changes will respect the Second Amendment rights of honest citizens, and we look forward to the issuance of a final rule this year," concluded Cox.
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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    We did it! Secretary Kempthorne's letter is here:

    http://www.nraila.org/pdfs/KempthorneRTC.pdf
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Let's hope this thing gets fixed. It's high time we as American taxpayers are allowed to legally carry in our nation's National Parks - Lord knows the BG's do.
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    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    Let's hope this thing gets fixed. It's high time we as American taxpayers are allowed to legally carry in our nation's National Parks - Lord knows the BG's do.
    As per Kempthorne's letter, the law will bring national park policy in line with indivudal state laws.

    Now... if they can get the rule in place before my may trip, I'll be a very happy camper indeed.

    This happens on the same day that we hit 3000 signatures on the petition. I wonder if I should send it anyway, just "for the record"..
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Nationa Park Carry

    The NRA is reporting that the Sec. of Interior has directed his Deputy to come up with a plan for public comment by April 30 for National Park carry. It's looking better.
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    Great news in NV since we can carry in state parks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    This happens on the same day that we hit 3000 signatures on the petition. I wonder if I should send it anyway, just "for the record"..
    I believe you should, for the record.......Great job, PR!

    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    The NRA is reporting that the Sec. of Interior has directed his Deputy to come up with a plan for public comment by April 30 for National Park carry. It's looking better.
    The Public Comment will be well represented by the Brady Bunch. We need to continue to keep up the pressure if I understand the minute of regulatory matters.....

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I believe you should, for the record.......Great job, PR!



    The Public Comment will be well represented by the Brady Bunch. We need to continue to keep up the pressure if I understand the minute of regulatory matters.....
    I wonder if the letter and petition could be submitted as part of the public comment. Anyone know how the public comment system works?
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  10. #9
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    I believe the proposed regulations that Laverty is charged with will contain all of the details on the Public Comment process. I'll try to find some examples to give you a "heads Up" and help get ahead of the curve. Laverty's deadline is tight too - April 30....only 65 days or so........

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    Red face Public Comment (For Policy Geeks)

    Here's an example (from the Treasury Department and IRS ) of a solicitation for public comment. The Department of the Interior very likely has similar requirements:

    See my comments at the end.....

    ************************************************** ***

    IRS Notices
    2007-41, 2007-21 I.R.B. 1287

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Part III - Administrative, Procedural, and Miscellaneous
    Public Comment Invited on Recommendations for 2007-2008 Guidance Priority List
    Notice 2007-41
    The Department of Treasury and Internal Revenue Service invite public comment on recommendations for items that should be included on the 2007-2008 Guidance Priority List.

    Treasury's Office .......and the Service recognize the importance of public input to formulate a Guidance Priority List..... blah blah blah

    As is the case whenever significant legislation is enacted, the Treasury Department and the Service have continued to dedicate substantial resources during the current plan year to published guidance projects necessary to implement .......blah blah blah

    In reviewing recommendations and selecting projects for inclusion on the 2007-2008 Guidance Priority List, the Treasury Department and the Service will consider the following:

    1. Whether the recommended guidance resolves significant issues relevant to many taxpayers;

    2. Whether the recommended guidance promotes sound tax administration;

    3. Whether the recommended guidance can be drafted in a manner that will enable taxpayers to easily understand and apply the guidance;

    4. Whether the Service can administer the recommended guidance on a uniform basis;

    and

    5. Whether the recommended guidance reduces controversy and lessens the burden on taxpayers or the Service.

    Taxpayers may submit recommendations for guidance at any time during the year. Please submit recommendations by May 31, 2007, for possible inclusion on the original 2007-2008 Guidance Priority List. ...............

    Taxpayers are not required to submit recommendations for guidance in any particular format. Taxpayers should, however, briefly describe the recommended guidance...............

    Taxpayers should send written comments to:

    Internal Revenue Service (address)

    or hand deliver comments Monday through Friday between the hours of 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. to:

    Courier's Desk (address)

    Alternatively, taxpayers may submit comments electronically via e-mail to the following address: Notice............

    For further information regarding this notice, contact........


    **************************************************


    If I understood the secretary's letter, she has delegated the responsibility to draft the revised regulations to Laverty. Laverty's Proposed Regs will include a Public Comment directive and comment submission comments similar to the above when released (supposedly by April 30) and will contain a deadline for comment submission.

    The Brady Bunch will spend substantial amounts during the Public Comment process, and will seek to subvert the intended directive as much as possible. Additionally, it is not against public policy that members of Congress submit comments, thus we should well expect the standard anti-self-defense Congressional members to be quite active.

    The NRA, JPFO, and GOA, and other organizations, as well as all of their members need to be quite pro-active.

    I would suggest your original petition could well be submitted with an appropriately worded transmittal letter that defines its original parameters so as to not be misleading.

    Additionally, after the proposed regs are published with the comment instructions, it might be a good move to prepare a second petition that supports the proposed regs.

    Just my .02, and the example and conjecture on Interior's rule making process reflect only my feeble attempt to understand GoobledyGook....

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I would suggest your original petition could well be submitted with an appropriately worded transmittal letter that defines its original parameters so as to not be misleading.
    Yes... I have to be careful about this. I cannot change the text of the original petition, because any change might represent something that one of the signatories doesn't agree with. In other words, changing the text means raising the possibility of someone saying, "I didn't sign on to THAT!"

    A cover letter asking it to be considered and included in the public comments would probably be appropriate. One of my "selling points" to this petition is that it's not sponsered by any organization. It's not NRA (I'm not even a member) it's just "a guy who cares" who gathered signatures without the support of any organization, and the signatories represent simply "people who care" and not the membership of an organization. I was hoping for more like 10,000 signatures, but alas... (although anyone who wants to promote it can help out it's here Removal of prohibition on firearms on National Park and Fish and Wildlife Federal lands. Petition ).

    There's always the perception that members of an organization will vote the way the organization tells them to vote, and this, at least, eliminates that criticism.

    Additionally, after the proposed regs are published with the comment instructions, it might be a good move to prepare a second petition that supports the proposed regs.
    Yeah, this will be key and will likely require fairly quick action. Although it does sound like the decision is made, any number of things could scuttle it -- A HUGE backlash, or a mass shooting or something stupid that would turn the tide drastically.

    We know the anti element will throw everything they have at it.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    Although it does sound like the decision is made, any number of things could scuttle it -- A HUGE backlash, or a mass shooting or something stupid that would turn the tide drastically.

    We know the anti element will throw everything they have at it.
    Backlash could include legal subversions, lawsuits, all sorts of trash....

    I'll try to stay on top of some of what I hear, so we can respond......

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    The NCPA responds to the National Park decision.
    NPCA | National Parks Conservation Association Says NRA Effort to Weaken National Parks Regulations Risks Visitor, Wildlife Safety

    It looks like I need to go ahead and write the essay that's been sitting in the back of my head: "The Myth of Safety In National Parks: Or, how I learned to stop worrying and love the gun."
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    This is pure awesome when I read this this morning. How does TN look at state parks? Does this mean that I can finally pack in the Smokies?
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    This is pure awesome when I read this this morning. How does TN look at state parks? Does this mean that I can finally pack in the Smokies?
    Well, we'll know on April 20th what the proposed rule change is and how long the comments period will be open. Then I would expect a couple weeks delay before the new rule is implemented. So you can't carry just yet.

    The rule is likely to allow carry in accordance with state law. In Colorado, at least, that would mean open carry is good to go and Conceal carry is good to go.

    But you still can't carry an automatic knife. (I feel my next cause coming)
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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