Still unarmed on College Campus

This is a discussion on Still unarmed on College Campus within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's been a while since I was in college , but today more than ever you'd think they'd allow the students the chance to defend ...

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Thread: Still unarmed on College Campus

  1. #1
    Member Array fightingchance's Avatar
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    Still unarmed on College Campus

    It's been a while since I was in college , but today more than ever you'd think they'd allow the students the chance to defend themselves. I especially like what the "Brady Bunch" had to say about the "grownups " not changing the rules. Really gets me going , check it out . Can armed students stop campus gun tragedies?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Can armed students stop campus gun tragedies?

    A heck of a lot better than unarmed students!
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    Can armed students stop campus gun tragedies?

    A heck of a lot better than unarmed students!

    NUFF SAID!

  5. #4
    Member Array jtracey's Avatar
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    Schools need to educate themselves

    I think its important to make note that the schools, not all states (I know some do, not VA) are the reason for the disarming the students.
    I'm your worst nightmare, a liberal with a gun.

  6. #5
    Member Array ak_balla's Avatar
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    I would feel much more safe, if i was allowed to carry on campus

  7. #6
    Member Array Pitbull's Avatar
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    I've got no issue with guns on campus - provided the student who is carrying lives OFF campus.

    Dormitories are no place for guns. One drunk idiot gets his hand on someone else's gun that's legally (and even safely) stored in a dorm room during a party and our argument just got much harder. Living/storing guns off campus - no problem.

    Of course, by the time a student turns 21 (which is generally the minimum age for CCP if I'm not mistaken) they're probably off campus anyway.

  8. #7
    Member Array jtracey's Avatar
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    Very interesting editorial

    This about sums it up. Ignore the name on the link, its an editorial about gun free zones.

    Today in Investor's Business Daily stock analysis and business news
    I'm your worst nightmare, a liberal with a gun.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    UMass student seriously beaten

    Below is featured in my local paper for todays news.
    Being a college student, on or off campus, does not change the fact of anyone, anytime, anywhere, by anybody...

    UMass student seriously beaten
    BY SCOTT MERZBACH STAFF WRITER

    AMHERST - A University of Massachusetts student sustained serious facial injuries following an assault on Shumway Street early Sunday morning.

    Lt. Ron Young, head of the police detective bureau, said Monday that the 22-year-old man came to the police station Sunday at 9:18 p.m. to report the injuries, which included broken bones in his face and damage to both his eye socket and sinus cavity.

    The man initially went to Cooley Dickinson Hospital in Northampton for treatment, and later saw an eye specialist in Boston and a sinus specialist in Connecticut, Young said.

    It appears the injuries to the man's face were inflicted by fists and knees
    and that no other weapons were used, Young said.

    Criminal charges could be filed later in the week. 'We have a prospective suspect in mind and witnesses are being interviewed,' Young said.

    The 22-year-old man, Young said, was the only person injured in the fight. 'It appears to be a dispute between two men,' he said.

    The assault is the latest in a string of violent incidents in Amherst during the month of February, which have also included a home invasion on North Pleasant Street in which three members of the UMass lacrosse team face assault and battery charges in Eastern Hampshire District Court, a racially charged attack involving a knife at MacKimmie dormitory at UMass and a series of fights that broke out on Main Street during the night of Feb. 16, in which several people were injured and which remains under investigation.

    UMass officials have sent a memo to students advising them to help create a safer campus environment.

    Town Manager Larry Shaffer said recently that the atmosphere perpetrated by violence is exactly counter to the ethos of the community. 'We join the university in being concerned about violence,' Shaffer said.

    Shaffer said though incidents have not affected Amherst's population at large, he is worried about the safety of police officers who are responding to incidents in which weapons have been used.

    Shaffer said it is important to resolve a situation in which people are being victimized by felons.

    'It does affect our town,' Shaffer said. 'Our reputation as a community dedicated to education is jeopardized by these outliers.'

    The article can be found at; http://www.dailyhampshiregazette.com...fm?id_no=82166

    Note: For those unfamiliar with Shumway Street it is far from UMass campus on the other side of Amherst town. It's not on Amherst College campus either being a roughly 20 minute walk away from there. It's just a regular street in Amherst town where Cheryl Nina and a Dunkin Donuts as well as a tire shop; amherst shumway street - Google Maps
    This young man was a citizen victim regardless of his employment status or education status. But this too will be written off by the local media and town as being student on student crime when in fact it is criminal on citizen crime.

    IMHO being a college student is not reason enough nor justifiable toward being a mark and/or defenseless.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #9
    Member Array Pitbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Below is featured in my local paper for todays news.
    Being a college student, on or off campus, does not change the fact of anyone, anytime, anywhere, by anybody...
    Never said it did.

    My point was that stupid crap happens in college dorms all the time. The residents are (generally) young, immature, hot headed and alcohol fueled. These conditions (doesn't matter if it's a dorm - could be anyplace) are NO PLACE for firearms. Period. I would much rather someone be beaten with fists during a fight in a dorm than shot with an available gun when a fight breaks out during a hall party and some idiot knows his roomate has a gun in the room, goes gets the gun, etc. Surely you see where I'm going with this.

    The point I'm trying to make is that responsible, law abiding students are generally powerless against the mob mentality which exists in most college dorms across America. Now, that same responsible, law abiding student in an apartment complex off campus has MUCH more control over the people with access to his apartment, has much more privacy, etc. He (or she) may even have a roomate - but that's a HECK of alot different than 40 drunk college kids at an impromtu party.

    I'm ALL for the second ammendment and ALL for armed college students. Guns don't belong in dorms. I think we might forget how crazy those dorms/frat houses get. Guns don't belong there.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Pitbull,

    My statement was not addressed to you.
    It was toward the position of the Brady group and it's positions toward 'student' possession of defensive tools as per the OP.

    As to your specific post defensive weapons for ones person are not limited to firearms. Knives and pepper spray fall within this area as well, but many colleges and universities including UMass in specific out right prohibit possession of as much by students he they on campus, in housing, and even in physically off campus housing toward facilities and/or groups that are endorsed but not necessarily supported by school dollars (i.e. off-campus greek housing).

    As you noted prior as related to firearm carry one by fed law would have to be 21 anyway before they could carry. Those people are going to be juniors and seniors who are very different from frehsmen in the sense of responsibility and emotional maturity. Not that it matters a lick as it wasn't long ago that ROTC and competition shooters of all college ages could keep firearms in their rooms and in their possesion. We didn't then have college shooters going nuts shooting up their classmates while on the way to the pistol or riflery range. Same as we now allow students to keep baseball/lacrosse/field hockey/cricket bats or golf clubs in their rooms which are just as dangerous in potential by a person with a bent state of mind and yet we don't have concern for that toward OMG they could get stolen or a college kid might get drunk and decide to murder his poli-sci prof to get of a mid-term.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #11
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    Question Gun-Free

    I don't understand how you have a shooting in a "Gun-free-Zone."

    What's being shot, if it is "Gun-free"?

    May-be we should be talking about "Unarmed-Victim Zones"
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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    He will feel the effects of this attack for years.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Lt. Ron Young, head of the police detective bureau, said Monday that the 22-year-old man came to the police station Sunday at 9:18 p.m. to report the injuries, which included broken bones in his face and damage to both his eye socket and sinus cavity.

    The man initially went to Cooley Dickinson Hospital in Northampton for treatment, and later saw an eye specialist in Boston and a sinus specialist in Connecticut, Young said.

    It appears the injuries to the man's face were inflicted by fists and knees
    and that no other weapons were used, Young said.

    - Janq
    If not the rest of his life. All this from "fists and knees". I am confident that a little training in situational awareness and avoidance techniques as well as the proper use of a firearm could have saved him for a lot of pain and suffering he may endure for a lifetime.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    If not the rest of his life. All this from "fists and knees". I am confident that a little training in situational awareness and avoidance techniques as well as the proper use of a firearm could have saved him for a lot of pain and suffering he may endure for a lifetime.
    HGJ,

    I bet what happened is he was knocked to the ground.
    At that point the attacker stomped and kneed him and it was good night Irene.

    No firearm necessary if he had some degree of physicality to run and outlast his chaser as the Amherst PD station is just over a 1/2 mile away and the Amherst College PD building is just over a 1/4 mile from Shumway street. Both are an up hill run though.
    Also there are businesses all over the place along that street which would have been open in the morning on a Sunday. Flee and take cover/concealment.
    Or carry a knife or some other impromptu defensive device, hell I've been stabbed in a fight with a sharpened pencil...and I can say it hurt like hell. The stabber though made the mistake of stopping to observe hi work which resulted in me turning and beating him down. But still it did work to a degree.

    Anyway getting an allowance to carry a gun in MA is darn tough and for a student of 22 it would be even tougher. But a firearm isn't ones one and only option toward surviving or fighting off a wolf.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtracey View Post
    This about sums it up. Ignore the name on the link, its an editorial about gun free zones.

    Today in Investor's Business Daily stock analysis and business news
    Great article. IMO best line was:

    "A major factor in determining how many people are harmed by these killers is the amount of time that elapses between when the attack starts and someone is able to arrive on the scene with a gun."

    Argument settled. The attacks don't stop until someone arrives with a gun or killer knows this is imminent (i.e. police closing in) and takes the coward's way out.
    The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

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    Member Array weazel's Avatar
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    Maybe a view from a current student myself will show shed some light.

    I am currently enrolled at Saint Louis University another "gun free zone" situated right down town in a "less then desirable" area. Did i mention saint louis has one of the highest crime rates in the US. Anyways not only does the school not allow guns you can't even check in a gun with the campus security. Now our campus securty is also the 3rd largest police force in the state of Missouri and the college isn't even that big. However if someone was to start shooting at the school it would be atleast 2 min before a single officer showed up. I never see them in the classroom buildings or in the dorm buildings. Infact the bank in the main campus building was robbed a couple of months ago. The person did not have a gun and was never captured. This is the center building that everystudent probably visits everyday. We have the 3rd largest police force in Missouri, all officers are armed and have the same power as the police, and they couldn't stop an unarmed bank robber in the busiest building on campus. How could I expect them to stop a shooting? I can also only expect that other schools have the same or less security as Saint Louis University.

    As for students not being capable of having a ccw becuase of grade problems or drinking makes zero sense to me. Most colleges are dry campuses so drinking occurs outside the gunfree zone. Also how does school work differ from work work. Should some people not be allowed to have ccw becuase there job is more stressful. Don't tell me that my classmates and I can't be safe with a ccw on campus just because we are college students and then turn your cheek when we are off. If you really feel that way then there should be much more arguments for raising the required age to 24 when most people have graduated.

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