Security and the Church

This is a discussion on Security and the Church within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm the pastor, and I'm always armed. At least one of my elders is armed, too. After all, what did Jesus say?...

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Thread: Security and the Church

  1. #16
    Member Array Marshall's Avatar
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    I'm always armed...

    I'm the pastor, and I'm always armed. At least one of my elders is armed, too. After all, what did Jesus say?

    Dr. Marshall C. St. John, pastor
    www.waysidechurch.org

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  3. #17
    Member Array Jim B's Avatar
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    In Michigan the rules of CC in a place of worship is only if you have written permission of the pastor. In our case the pastor is going for his CPL next month and intends to carry. We have discussed it a bit and at this point he wants to have a few people carrying. As the attendance grows at least our group would know that they were the only ones with written permission. Ultimately practicing together would be vital, I agree so so much with that!

    J

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    NO CHURCH CARRY IN MS!!!!!! All firearms are period.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

    NRA member

  5. #19
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    There's a sig line around here that sums up the best CCW attitude I can think of (as long as it's legal):

    "Always carry, never tell"

  6. #20
    Member Array IntrepidDad's Avatar
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    I'm glad to hear about all the activity to develop security teams. I attend a small church within a mile of New Life Church here in Colorado Springs. After the shootings in December, I went to my Pastor and told him I had a CCW and could carry at church. He said he would speak with the Elders about it.

    They got back to me a few weeks later and basically said "Thanks. But we don't think we need it. We're a small church and nothing bad has ever happened here."

    Fortunately, in Colorado, I don't need permission to carry, but I wanted to be part of a formal security plan since a solid plan is far more than simply "is someone carrying?".

    Their lack of concern seems unbelievable to me since New Life Church is less than a mile away. How close to home does it have to be before it's real to some people?

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntrepidDad View Post
    I'm glad to hear about all the activity to develop security teams. I attend a small church within a mile of New Life Church here in Colorado Springs. After the shootings in December, I went to my Pastor and told him I had a CCW and could carry at church. He said he would speak with the Elders about it.

    They got back to me a few weeks later and basically said "Thanks. But we don't think we need it. We're a small church and nothing bad has ever happened here."

    Fortunately, in Colorado, I don't need permission to carry, but I wanted to be part of a formal security plan since a solid plan is far more than simply "is someone carrying?".

    Their lack of concern seems unbelievable to me since New Life Church is less than a mile away. How close to home does it have to be before it's real to some people?
    For too many...right at the front door.

    In FL...no permission, no signs, no ban...no problem.
    When in church, the area within 21 feet of my wife and I is always covered by a weapon!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    At least 20% of the parents carry at our church, and we all know EVERY member by sight.

    Of course, as we're out in the sticks, we only have five families at our church. Living in the hills is great, too: consider joining us if you're looking to move to the Blue Ridge area. Reformed Presbyterian, if you're curious (Calvinist; practicing paedocommunion; homeschooling/private Christian school-only).

    Prayers are with those of you at bigger churches - I can imagine it being a bit more difficult there.

  9. #23
    Member Array JDBraddy's Avatar
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    I applaud the sentiment, but I'd be very carefull about identifying yourselves or your churches, and especially about being vocal about such arangements, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get yourselves or your churches branded as "Cults" or "militia's", and portrayed in the image of the Branch Davidians in Waco.

  10. #24
    Member Array rainmaker's Avatar
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    Jeff Hawkins, the security chief with the Creation Museum in northern KY, has been holding seminars on "Security for Faith-Based Organizations". I talked with him the other day, and the next one will be in May. They are publishing a book on the subject, and the seminar date will be determined by the release date of the book.

  11. #25
    Member Array 45Dave's Avatar
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    Great Thread

    This has been a great refreshing thread. Several years ago one of our instructors, his pastor and 5 other church members took the class here in Mich so they would all be able to carry in church. Other students really peppered the pastor about carrying in church, what is biblical about lethal force, taking of a life and other church/response to violence positions. The pastor is sharp, answered all of the questions and showed tremendous compassion for his flock. He stated that one a given Sunday there was 2 to 4 thousand dollars collected and it is just a matter of time before someone wants to hold them up. He really did not care about the money, they can have it however if the bad guys start to harm his flock, he as a pastor would be held in account on judgment day if he did not use his resources (trained lay people in the service) to help protect his flock. They work in teams, train what to do including who calls the police, directs traffic, does any first aid, where to put people who are injured, how to handle any press. They are a pretty impressive group both in there action and in there theology of what and why they are there.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Great information y'all. I really appreciate all of the post, and ever tho we are a long way down the road in being exactly were we should be I have heard some interesting ideas that we will also put into place here in Texas.

    "Could Be Today"
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  13. #27
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    I CCW at my church, with the knowledge and consent of the Law Enforcement Ministry. As a private citizen I could "back up" any authorized security personnel, in the event of an armed altercation. The Law Enforcement Ministry is for current or former LEO's only, and are authorized by the church to CCW, for liability purposes. Since I am not an LEO, I want to join the Security Ministry, who patrol the parking lots and other buildings on campus among other duties, but are not permitted to CCW, for liabilty purposes. I will serve the church in any way I can, because I am called to do so. So I won't CCW while in the Security Ministry, only when I am attending services as a private citizen.
    Last edited by armado; March 17th, 2008 at 08:56 PM. Reason: mispelled words

  14. #28
    Member Array Fatherof10's Avatar
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    Churches, church related organizations, seminaries, etc. are potential targets for multiple reasons -- large number of people gathered, offended members and ex-members, making a statement, religious terrorism, etc. Preparation, planning and communication are vital! I pray this thread leads many to a greater preparedness.

    Prevention has not been mentioned -- churches and related organizations should strive to know their people, and lovingly confront and/or encourage those who need help and have problems. Visitors should be greeted and members and visitors alike should not be allowed to isolate themselves in the context of a community of faith.

  15. #29
    Member Array detroit9mm's Avatar
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    In MI the law says you have to have the permission of the "presiding officials". I am a deacon and on the Board and our Pastor is very open to having security in the services. I carry along with a LEO friend of mine and we have one other deacon awaiting the arrival of his CPL so he can carry. I recently revised our Security Plan and the church is paying for some ongoing advanced training for us. We are just outside Detroit (most dangerous big city in America according to the FBI) and right next to Dearborn (highest concentration of muslims outside the midde east). While nothing major has ever happened the potential is definitely there. This is becoming a bigger and bigger concern for churches across the nation and should be taken seriously. In Feb. 06 we did have a church shooting about 10 miles away in Detroit. It happens! Churches should have a complete plan to handle all situations and emergencies and not just "shooters". Failing to plan is planning to fail!

  16. #30
    New Member Array Brian-Mc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainmaker View Post
    Jeff Hawkins, the security chief with the Creation Museum in northern KY, has been holding seminars on "Security for Faith-Based Organizations". I talked with him the other day, and the next one will be in May. They are publishing a book on the subject, and the seminar date will be determined by the release date of the book.
    Do you by chance have a time that this seminar will be in May?
    Last edited by Brian-Mc; March 17th, 2008 at 09:56 PM. Reason: add in quote

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