Security and the Church

This is a discussion on Security and the Church within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and ...

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Thread: Security and the Church

  1. #31
    Member Array cheapthrills's Avatar
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    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and my glock they comfort me

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  3. #32
    Member Array kimberland's Avatar
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    The following is a GREAT article about self defense and the bible. Many people forget that Jesus ordered his desciples to arm themselves.

    The Bible and self-defense

  4. #33
    Member Array rainmaker's Avatar
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    Brian-Mc (and everybody else) They did not have a date/time set as of last week. Their website creationmuseum-dot-org should have info later, and does have contact info/phone for them. Buckeye Firearms Assn (buckeyefirearms-dot-org) has an website article on the seminars.

  5. #34
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    I attended the second session a few weeks ago that the museum held. It was very good at waking up people as to the dangers that we as Christians face. I believe that this seminar will be the basis for additional topics and training. Jeff did a great job presentation on what is needed and some of the available resources.

    We have had a team in place for over six years. Here is a list of topics that I generated as we prepare to do a local seminar in the SW Ohio area. Note that this is an informational day to get a novice church thinking about putting a team in place. Please feel free to make note of other topics that you believe would be needed or of interest.

    Initial Seminar

    * Why is a Safety-Security Team is needed
    * How to execute a risk analysis
    * Setting up a safety team
    * Choosing team members
    * Setting up team/church policies
    * Children's security and policies
    * Safeguarding church members on mission trips
    * Dealing with unruly people
    * Dealing with medical incidents
    * Team Equipment

    1. ID Cards, Apparel, badges, etc.2. Impact Weapons - Batons, ASP, etc.
    3. Chemical weapons and Tasers
    4. Firearms
    5. Restraints
    6. Reports/Notebooks/Lights/Etc
    7. Medical equipment

    * Interfacing with your local PD and FD/EMT's
    * Liability insurance
    * Dealing with the aftermath of an incident - IE: getting the backstory right and what to say to the PD, Media and public.

  6. #35
    Member Array rainmaker's Avatar
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    Thanks, JackJ. Keep us in mind when you get a date/time/place determined.

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Maybe a video could be made of these sessions and sold to other churches that can't attend.
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
    http://www.tac-def-tx.com/
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    Retired LEO
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  8. #37
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    I attend a rural Catholic Church in a traditionally Catholic rural Texas Town. To say my town has a gun friendly culture is somewhat of an understatement (our elementary school does not have it's own shooting team, but 1/4 of my daughter's class shoot with the county 4H club (which in turn makes up about 1/6 of the Texas team that competed at last years nationals).

    I know of no formal plan, but that is simply because I have just moved back into town and am not part of the Churches men's group (Knights of Columbus) yet. LOE's are at almost every mass and open carry.

    Perhaps I need to join the men's group (my wife is ahead of me on that matter), odds are it will come up in discussion soon enough over a couple months. I know the last bible study I was in, one night during separate prayer (women in other room) we started openly discussing the merits of various guns for concealed carry - I bet 4 of the 6 of us here licensed.

  9. #38
    New Member Array Kwan's Avatar
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    I am new to the forum. I started a security ministry in our church a little over a year ago. I first got all information together to present to church leadership everything from current events to instances in the bible where guards were posted at the entrance tothe temple. After presentation, I was given the go ahead and went on to select a team of individuals to meet the ministry needs. We utilize communication gear, CCW and tasers. Each team member has a post that rotates week to week, utilize patrols, we train together on everything from disturbances to medical to armed response. While we are constantly growing and modifying we have learned a lot of lessons over the past year and now have a security management handbook. It use to be church's were off limits to the BG's for the most part but that no longer stands. It seems everywhere is fair game now.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Kwan, you are exactly right. No place including a church is safe any longer. Look at Wedgewood in Ft Worth, the two locations just outside of Denver, and the countless other locations across the US. If a fellowship doesn't plan and prepare for a what if, they have their head in the sand. Chances are your church or my church will never be a target ... but could it be ... we all know it's a possilility and that's why the sheepdogs continue to be on guard. God gave us a family before he gave us a church, and now time has found our family and our extended family to be the local church and as one of the sheepdogs, I have made a commitment to protecting that family. I take that responsibility very seriously ... these rights, these priviledges, this responsibilite for all of us is one that may define the type of America our children and grand-children inherit, and may well define the furture of our country. My dad was a tank commander in a Sherman tank during the battle of the Bulge in WW II, he and many many others before then and since then have fought for our freedoms in places that are hardly on any map today. It looks like our next fight may be right here in America, our legecy could be did we step up and shout "Not on my watch, not in my home, not in my church, not in my country". Nehemiah 4:17
    Last edited by Ridgeline; March 19th, 2008 at 09:53 PM. Reason: <SP>
    "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong"

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  11. #40
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    Known Church Shooting Incidents

    Just to give you an idea of how many incidents have occurred in churches since 1988. If you know of an event not shown, please send me a PM with the details or a link.

    Known Church Shootings

    Colorado Springs, CO Dec 2007 3 Dead, 3 wounded
    Avada, CO Dec, 2007 2 Dead
    Seattle Washington, July 06 1 Dead 5 Wounded
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana 5-06 5 Dead
    Detroit, MI 2/06 3 Dead 1 Wounded
    Brookfield, WI 2/05 7 Dead
    Sash, TX 8/05 4 Dead
    Fort Pierce, Fla. 2-04 1 Dead
    Rochester Hills, MI 3/03 1 Dead 10 Wounded
    Atlanta, GA 3 Dead
    NYC,NY 3-02 2 Dead
    Long Island, NY 1 Dead
    Columbia, TN 12-99 1 Dead 1 Wounded
    Wedgewood, TX 9/99 8 Dead 7 Wounded
    Gonzales, LO 3-99 4 Dead
    Trotwood, OH 9-98 1 Dead
    Salmon, Idaho 9-97 1 Dead
    Germantown, MI 1 Dead
    NYC,NY 10/88 1 Dead


    Churches are indeed not a safe place anymore!

  12. #41
    Member Array Nosce Te Ipsum's Avatar
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    I am working up the nerve to talk to our new UMC Pastor about having the sign removed, and allowing for a security team, especially as my church is an InterFaith Hospitality church. The sign was agreed to by a former pastor (rotated out); hopefully the 17 years our new pastor spent as a USA Chaplain will help turn the tide.

    A favorable Heller ruling can't hurt either. Cheapthrills, nice quote!! Gotta remember not to say that as my son and I are reciting Psalm 23.

    Steve

  13. #42
    Member Array firestarplus's Avatar
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    My son went to school with one of the wounded in the Denver area church shootings, that was the final straw for me. I now carry all the time, including church but havent decided if I will approach the church security team or not as I am quite sure that most if not all dont carry. I hate to open a can-o-worms if you know what I mean. It is so sad that I have to worry about my childrens safety in God's house, of course The Owner of the House is probably more broken than I.

  14. #43
    Member Array caffeine's Avatar
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    Our church was in the process of organizing a security team, made up of ex-military, LEO's, and a select few invited private citizens, all with CCP's. Unfortunately, due to the exhorbitant cost of liability insurance, we are not allowed to be an officially sanctioned group. We can still meet as a bunch of like-minded guys and discuss security issues and train to a certain extent, but not as an officially organized team. Not sure yet how this will play out in terms of effectiveness...

    I know that there are 10-15 members of our church of about 500 that carry on a regular basis, and we all carry at church. There may be more I'm not aware of, since I was surprised at some of the guys and gals who were packing heat as we organized this group. We try to have 2 people in the entrance, at least a couple in the main service, and a couple in the vicinity of the kid's church rooms. The youth pastor has a CCP (not sure if he's packing while he's preaching, though), and several armed parents are keeping an eye on the mid-week youth services.

    I found it valuable to identify the other guys who were carrying. I don't know them all well, and that helps put GG faces with suddenly visible hardware if a bad situation occurs. Not only that, but we are able to locate ourselves strategically around the sanctuary as we pick our habitual Sunday seats!

  15. #44
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    Question

    Related question: For those whose church staff knows/accepts/condones/endorses carrying by members, what religion+denomination is the church? I'm sort of curious if some denominations are more accepting or if it's just a random smattering.

  16. #45
    Member Array Marshall's Avatar
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    Church by church

    The openess toward ccw in worship services will definitely be a church-by-church sort of thing. Though it may be safely assumed that the more liberal leftist denominations (United Methodist, Presbyterian Church in the USA, United Church of Christ, Episcopal, etc) will nearly always be completely anti-gun. More Bible-based, "Fundamentalist" denominations will be accepting of carring firearms, but even there it will be church-by-church, pastor-by-pastor. I was at a PCA pastor's breakfast yesterday morning in Chattanooga, and the question came up. The group was split about 50-50, I would say.
    Dr. Marshall C. St. John, pastor
    www.waysidechurch.org

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