Security and the Church

This is a discussion on Security and the Church within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rainmaker Jeff Hawkins, the security chief with the Creation Museum in northern KY, has been holding seminars on "Security for Faith-Based Organizations". ...

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Thread: Security and the Church

  1. #46
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    Array SIXTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainmaker View Post
    Jeff Hawkins, the security chief with the Creation Museum in northern KY, has been holding seminars on "Security for Faith-Based Organizations". I talked with him the other day, and the next one will be in May. They are publishing a book on the subject, and the seminar date will be determined by the release date of the book.
    Jeff has done a pretty good job with that huge task.

    I'm wondering how much and what kind of training these other church teams have done. The biggest part of this would be learning to work as a team, and who goes where for what purpose.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #47
    Member Array Curtis27's Avatar
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    My father-in-law is a pastor, and we have discussed several situations. As he carrys during the service, he would be at a prime place to call the danger. Me and the rest of the family always sit on the left side (when facing the pulpit), as I am left handed and could address a threat from the side and rear of the sanctuary. In the congregation, there are about five or six highway patrol officers that are placed throughout the audience, and we all shake hands and do the greeting before so that we are aware of who is where. Also, there are two plainclothes officers (not on duty) that will always sit in the rear of the auditorium. This way, we have all exits/entrances covered.

    With the church that we attend to now, there has not been a "meeting" of CHL holders, and therefore I am not sure if anyone other than my wife and I. Because of that we tend to stay in the back of the auditorium so that if a threat is recognized, we might be able to take action before things get out of hand...
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  4. #48
    Member Array Marshall's Avatar
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    The Greatest Danger

    The greatest danger is accidentally shooting an innocent party. Whoever may be carrying must be very serious about hitting what he/she aims at, and who may be beside or behind the adversary.
    Dr. Marshall C. St. John, pastor
    www.waysidechurch.org

  5. #49
    Member Array Curtis27's Avatar
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    Well said!
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    "...the Constitution does not say Government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says ‘the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.’” - Ronald Reagan

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberland View Post
    The following is a GREAT article about self defense and the bible. Many people forget that Jesus ordered his desciples to arm themselves.

    The Bible and self-defense
    Kimberland, thank you! Good read and I've saved that one for future use!
    "Deine Papieren bitte?" or "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !"
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  7. #51
    New Member Array Kwan's Avatar
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    I think it is very important to form a security ministry. You never know how one will react in a given situation and while training together will not give a definative answer to that question, it will create a bond and level of trustthat will otherwise be missing with a random group. In the heat of the moment without properly training together, lone individuals have a great potential to become part of the problem instead of helping be part of the solution thus putting many at risk. You can even help to train the congregation in the event of a gunman, but the team can also train to not only for armed response but also to respond to disturbances, lost children, parking lot theft/vandalism and many other things. The reasons for beginning a ministry are many, so the presentation to your church's leadership can come from many different angles and not only the ones that involve carrying a firearm. To answer "ree" we are an Fundamental Independent Baptist Church. These are very serious matters for very serious times and the better prepared you are the more likely you are to survive. The bible gives many instances of utilizing "guards" in the temple; 2 Kings 11;6, 1 Chronicles 9;19 & 9;23 just to name a few. A properly thought out presentation with good examples from current events and utilizing God's principles of protection from his Word will make it hard for any pastor to completely dismiss the notion of a security team even if in the beginning they find it difficult to allow armed security. Even problems with insurance liability can be overcome.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I think you guys just need to invite those women from that hair salon to attend your church,the one where the robber tried to leave and got dragged back in and whooped on some more lol.
    Seriously in these times churchgoers are perceived to be meek and god fearing people nobody would carry a gun in church so perfect victim zone,The times have changed and i believe churches realize god can't protect them from somebody wanting to slaughter a bunch of people,well maybe he can if he empowers a chosen few let's call sheepdogs that protect the flock from woolofs

  9. #53
    Member Array Louis's Avatar
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    Just using unofficial references, it appears that 36 states do not restrict concealed carry in a church. Seven states prohibit such carry, and five allow concealed carry with permission. Two states outlaw concealed carry anywhere. If my count is in error someone please say so.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Bless all of you for keeping the congregation safe ( tis not sarcasm ). I dont go to church much , but here in colorado i may and do carry when i show up . That is exactly why i own such a firearm as the Kahr pm9 . I can dress up and it just vanishes unless and untill its needed . Now could i only afford one ccw gun the pm would not be it . But like the HK p7 i have ( for showoff ) the little pm fills a nitche for me . It is in fact unseen when i dress my best, and does that without tailoring .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Denomination: Fellowship of Reformed Churches (a small group, somewhat akin to Orthodox Presbyterian, Reformed Presbyterian Church, or Presbyterian Church of America).

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Dukalmighty, I think you touched on the solution, at least for today. God can keep His people safe by using His favorite resource, his people... his sheepdogs, and since we can't keep some BG from entering our churches, we can use our skills, talents, and training to prepare for the unthinkable. God's Word asks the question "Is there anything too difficult for God"... His Word also says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me", and "with God all things are possible". And even so, the BG's will win sometime, and we should expect that and be spiritually prepared ourselves, after all Job who lost everything said "even tho God slays me, yet will I praise Him". Remember we can be wrong about a lot of things, but we can't be wrong about the more important thing ... "Eternity is too long to be wrong!"

    We are told that we will encounter hardships "when you walk thru the valley", when you walk thru the fires"... it's not if, it's when...

    And remember, if you have read the back of the Book, We Win!!!
    Last edited by Ridgeline; March 21st, 2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason: <sp>
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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    +1 to Ridgeline and Dukalmighty:

    God is not thwarted, and He is indeed sovereign and in control. He's plenty powerful enough to zap any bad guys without any action from us, just as He's plenty powerful enough to materialize gold out of thin air to feed my family.

    But for His own reasons, He thinks it wise for me to get my carcass out of bed and go to work each day rather than do a 'magic wand' solution for me. Why? I would guess it deals with character, growth, example and testimony. I pray, and trust Him to act... then am ALSO (and within that context) willing to be used by Him in the answer, by His grace, for His glory.

    By the same token, I feel that God is about the business of protecting His people, unless and until He feels it best to let uncomfortable times overtake them. The Jews were his people, yet He allowed them to be taken into captivity; the apostles were martyred... all according to plan. But His plan USUALLY involves protection, and God USUALLY involves normal means to accomplish His plans: that's where you and I come in.

    If we think we have the power to thwart God by failing to act and a fellow church-goer dies before "accepting Christ", or if we think our taking out a bad guy might prevent a later conversion, we're WAY off mark: no disrespect to the fine folks here or to Messers. Colt or Browning... but God will accomplish His plan (to protect or to take someone out), independent of our best efforts... or possibly in concert with them.

    My goal is to be a good tool in the Master's hands, and to be obedient should He call on me to act.

  14. #58
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    I think we all need and do realize that God's plan will be done. We can not change that. We also need to understand that he places people in positions to complete a task that he has in store for them. For some it might be working with dis-advantaged children, other working at a food bank. For some of us, as the story is told in Nehemiah, it is to placed as a guard over the lambs of God's flock as Jeanne A. was in the Colorado church last December.

    May all of us have her strength and courage if we are called upon. May the church leadership understand the need to protect the lambs and permit us to prepare for it.

    Have a great and safe Easter Tomorrow and keep your awareness level up for any unbalanced souls who might try to "Make a Mark" tomorrow.

  15. #59
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    Not to rain on anyone's parade....but in Texas if you are a CHL and acting as part of the church security, or security anywhere else, you are probably in violation of the law. Only commissioned police officers or commissioned private security officers may carry and act as security for an entity or individual.

    Many churches across this nation are forming security teams. That is a good thing. However, be aware of your state laws. Have your church attorney advise you on these matters. I would also suggest checking with your insurance agent...liability comes in to play here, unfortunately. We hire uniformed police officers at our church.
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  16. #60
    Member Array Gibber's Avatar
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    Marshall, I hope to put my hand in yours some day!
    You are a right-on God-fearing pastor.

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