Security and the Church - Page 5

Security and the Church

This is a discussion on Security and the Church within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; txshooter You are correct. Though it does depend on the state. We did check with the insurance underwriter to verify that we have coverage. In ...

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Thread: Security and the Church

  1. #61
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    txshooter

    You are correct. Though it does depend on the state. We did check with the insurance underwriter to verify that we have coverage.

    In many states, if you have a paid force, it must be a state certified group. It may not apply if you are volunteering.

    It would be best to check with a lawyer in the church or for the church to verify the state requirements. In some areas, if you are a "safety team", note: no mention of security in the name, manuals or procedures, the laws for private security employees may not apply to you.

    You need to do the research to make sure that you are legal.


  2. #62
    Member Array txshooter's Avatar
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    Opinion of Texas DPS Private Security Bureau

    Church Volunteer Security Patrol May 10, 2007
    A volunteer security patrol made up of church members would generally require licensing under the provisions of Section 1702.108 or 1702.222, regardless of whether any compensation is received as a result of the activities. The only exception to licensing provided by the legislature for nonprofit and civic organizations is found in Section 1702.327, which applies specifically to nonprofit and civic organizations that employ peace officers under certain circumstances and would not be applicable here.
    However, there is one exception to licensing under Chapter 1702 provided by the legislature that could arguably apply, which can be found in section 1702.323 (“Security Department of Private Business”). This exception would allow volunteers to provide security services exclusively for one church, as long as they do not carry firearms and as long as they do not wear “a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with ‘security’ on the patch or apparel.” See TEX. OCC. CODE §1702.323(a) & (d)(2). Thus, the wearing of a uniform or any apparel containing the word “security” would subject them to the licensing requirements of the act.
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  3. #63
    Member Array Tim the Teacher's Avatar
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    Our church is considering instituting a security plan which includes actions to be taken when someone disrupts the meeting including shouting, knife wielding and gun usage. There are no documents that identify a "team" however there are certain actions the congregation is asked to take in the event something takes place. The pastor also knows of several CHL holders that attend both the early and regular worship service. None of that violates the Texas DPS Private Security regulations.

  4. #64
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    txshooter,
    I will stand on the law of being able to protect my family and the law states I can protect a third person. Ridgeline is talking in general about church security and not a group that is organized by our church. We are just a group of people that share a great interest in the protection of our pastor and brother and sisters in Christ. Ridgeline and myself attend the same church. We hold tactial training classes for our CHL church members.
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  5. #65
    Member Array txshooter's Avatar
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    Reborn,

    I understand and did not mean to imply otherwise. However, I have been seeing a number of similiar threads since the recent church shootings and want to pass on a fact that most people, particularly those in authority within the churches do not know about. It is something that they/we need to be aware of in planning for church security.

    We have had this discussion in our church and several members felt that we could handle this ourselves by forming a security team to back up the police officer on duty during services. So I did some checking and found out it is not so simple. That is why my advice is to make sure that you check with your church attorney and insurance agent where it concerns the congregation as a whole or corporate body.

    Individually, that is up to you to decide for you and your family.
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  6. #66
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    The rules that apply are indeed a very mixed bag. Every state has it's own regulations and many of those do not address a non paid force. None that I know of specifically address volunteer teams in a church. In some states, if you have a "Safety" team that is not paid, the rules do not apply. In light of the number of shootings at churches, this issue will continue to come up. The best option is to have someone check with the state attorney general's office in your state.

    The rules in Texas have been identified very well on the GateKeepers site. They are based in Texas and have a good handle on it there.

    Do the right thing and investigate the requirements in your state.

  7. #67
    Member Array rainmaker's Avatar
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    I received a call from Karla at the Creation Museum yesterday. Jeff Hawkins has scheduled another Security for Faith-Based Organizations seminar for Tuesday morning May 20, 2008. Cost is $ 55.00, and they do offer a group discount. Cost includes admission to the museum after the seminar. The museum website should have more info, and a number you can call to reserve a seat. Unfortunately, it looks like I can't make this one since I have to cover for others who will be on vacation that week.
    Steve

  8. #68
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    I have been working in our church for the past 6 years as volunteer security. There tends to be a peaking of interest every time a shooting occurs in a church such as the events in Wisconsin and lately on Colorado. A friend and I have recently put together a website to provide assistance to those who are currently involved with a church security team as well as those who need guidance on starting and training a team. Some of the items included are presentations to church management on approving a team, security and medical equipment, incident report forms, selecting a duty weapon, training videos on ASP and low profile CCW in church.

    If you are interested check it out - Church Security Member

    Mods if this post is out of line, please delete it.

  9. #69
    New Member Array Hal-koll's Avatar
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    I don't know if this has come up or not, I don't have the time to read the entire thread right now.
    I am not affiliated with this business.


    ChurchSecurity Services

    -K

  10. #70
    Member Array LabTech's Avatar
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    i carry in church. might be the only one . . . . might not.

  11. #71
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    LabTech:me too....
    "Just because I'm paranoid,doesn't mean they're NOT after me...."

  12. #72
    Member Array strider72's Avatar
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    Been thinking of setting up a security detail at my fiance's church. Talk about sitting ducks...most people don't think about their church services being a easy target. Have a few LEO's in mind .
    Glock 19/FEG/FM HiPowers/Keltec P32 for me. When I can't use my 870,N98 or Marlin .30-30 of course...

  13. #73
    Member Array strider72's Avatar
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    Maybe "security detail" is not the right term...
    Glock 19/FEG/FM HiPowers/Keltec P32 for me. When I can't use my 870,N98 or Marlin .30-30 of course...

  14. #74
    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    Often the term Safety Team is used instead of Security Team. It does not present the in your face feeling quite as strongly. This includes both medical team members such as nurses, EMT's and Paramedics as well as security team members. Sometimes it is easier to get the church management to agree to a safety team and then to move slowly in full security mode. With the large amount of shooting incidents (4) this year, many churches are making the decision that they really need to step up and protect their members.

    If you church has decided to do this, make sure that you check the legal requirements for your state and then train until you know what you are doing.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
    Often the term Safety Team is used instead of Security Team. It does not present the in your face feeling quite as strongly. This includes both medical team members such as nurses, EMT's and Paramedics as well as security team members. Sometimes it is easier to get the church management to agree to a safety team and then to move slowly in full security mode. With the large amount of shooting incidents (4) this year, many churches are making the decision that they really need to step up and protect their members.

    If you church has decided to do this, make sure that you check the legal requirements for your state and then train until you know what you are doing.
    JackJ, I believe you put it well indeed!
    Work with the strengths our people have ... include the folks you've just named ... a feeling of inclusion improves chances of acceptance!
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