''He said - she said"

This is a discussion on ''He said - she said" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Being from Kalifornia I could not carry openly even if I wanted to in most urban areas. If the situation you describe happened in Kalifornia ...

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Thread: ''He said - she said"

  1. #31
    Member Array uudl's Avatar
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    Being from Kalifornia I could not carry openly even if I wanted to in most urban areas. If the situation you describe happened in Kalifornia and you were in a place that it was legal to carry openly and the person reporting you wanted to sign a complaint, probably the least that would happen was that your firearm would be seized as evidence and held until the matter was investigated and adjudicated. It could be even worse if his story is believed.

    As for open carry, I would not carry openly even if I could. Why warn the BG, let him be surprised. Also if the BG is armed you are advertising the fact that you have a $500 to $1000 item on your hip.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy
    Tangle, I am assuming that the guy was inside the vehicle (I know, when you assume...) but I would love to know why he removed the gun and how he did it. If the moron made a big production of it then yes, he deserves the ticket. If he was carefully removing it but luck has it that a passerby saw him, he does not deserve the ticket because he wasn't being careless but just targeted by a nervous idiot.
    Well, obviously, I am assuming also - isn't that interesting, assuming is bad, what iffing is good. Hmmm, I need to give that some thought.

    Unfortunately, we are probably responsible and accountable for any action that frightens another. Although I do it, one wonders about marginal gun types "off" loading and "on" loading guns in cars in public parking lots. I think most people would be quite uncomfortable to know that's going on.

  4. #33
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    Loading - Unloading in the parking lot

    I, too, worry about removing a weapon before going into a store. Here in New Mexico, we can't carry concealed anywhere where they "dispense" liquor, which here means selling by the drink or in a package. So I can't go into a 7-11 with a concealed weapon. So I have a gun safe in my truck right beside the seat, and in my car in the trunk, reachable through the pull down back seat. I always remove the weapon ( and holster, if appropriate) and place it in the gun safe while I'm still in the car or truck. That way, nobody can complain about seeing it, because they can't see it. Is it fair or reasonable that I have to go through all this? No, but that's the way it is, and we have to deal with reality.

    Lots of good ideas have been passed around in this thread - keep it up.

    Desert Rat

  5. #34
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    Rat - 1 post - 4 months - must be I didn't say welcome yet
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  6. #35
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    In Arizona, open carry is legal. While not common by any means, I have seen a number of people on motorcycles carrying openly with no problems. Because I have my permit, there really is no reason to open carry very often. I have, however, after leaving work put on my OWB, off property for the drive home without a cover garment (perfectly legal in AZ). When I get home, if the garbage cans need hauling back in or the mail needs to be picked up, I do it without any thought. If anyone takes exception during that time, I will inform them of the law and go about my business. If they want to call the police they are welcome to go ahead....
    Bumper
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  7. #36
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    Rat - 1 post - 4 months - must be I didn't say welcome yet
    Must be that I'm silent, but deadly - or just plain too busy to do the things I really enjoy. I'll try to visit more often.

  8. #37
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    Must be that I'm silent, but deadly
    Sounds more like you have a gas problem there dude!

    Just kiddin" - yep - drop by more often if ya can. All work and no play - makes jack a dull boy!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    I think what he did may have fallen into the "Careless" part of the law stated. As gun owners, we need to remember that displaying a gun in a parking lot is likely going to be threatening to non-gun types if they see it.
    Careless has a specific legal meaning - it's not just displaying. You have to put it forth in some manner likely to cause actual injury.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  10. #39
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    IMHO, open carry will do the same as if I were to go around in public telling PPl I'm a Black belt. Sooner or later, some idiot with somthing to prove to himself will try something stupid.

    I have a neighbor who has the word "Packin" for a license plate. I often ask myself "What is this guy trying to prove?"

    Better to keep your carry concealed and nobody is the wiser

    Mike

  11. #40
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    It is my understanding from my CCW class, taught by a LEO, that if you open carry, in public, and it upsets someone and they call the police, the police will come with the understanding that there is a man with a gun. They can issue a disturbing the peace citation to the person at their discretion. Anyway that's what we were taught.

    On your own property is a different, but if I'm doing something that is a threat to others or that others feel threatened by, it is likely the police will be called and it is unlikely they will support the continuation of the act.

    There are lots of rights that we self-moderate for the consideration of others; maybe open carry falls into this category.

    It's a little bit of a drift but, I had two very interesting experiences with Deputy Sheriffs at my neighbor's house. His house was broken into so he had a security system installed. It took a while to get some things worked out on the system and it went off on several occassions.

    One night it goes off (again) so I go over do reset the alarm and I open the garage door, get the key to the inside door and just as I start to open the door, it occurs to me that this could be real this time. About that time I see a flashlight beam outside the garage moving toward the garage. I peek out a window and discover the alarm has called the police and there is a cruiser parked in the driveway. The officer is coming into the garage of a house with an alarm going off and guess who the officer is going to see? I raise my hands and greet the officer. What if I had been open carrying?

    Anyway, he just says can you get us in? I am stunned and shocked at that. He didn't even ask who I was. I identified myself and we went in. He searched every room in the house and I was quite disturbed by his methods. He would walk to within two feet of a bifold closet door and open one door with one hand and the other door at the same time with the other hand. Where's his gun? In his holster. Where's his backup? I'm standing well away from him so I'll have time to react when the BG jumps out of the closet.

    We're at the last point a BG could be. I'm pretty anxious at this point, because if there is a BG, this is where he has to be. Just as the officer reaches for both doors with both hands, a board creaks to my left, which is the hallway leading to the room we're in. I catch a person-size movement from the corner of my eye and instinctively reach for my concealed Glock. True to training, my eye looks for the threat as my hands move. It is another officer that came in totally unannounced. I turn slightly toward him and disguise my terminated draw stroke as a tummy scratch. They never knew the difference. But, what if I had been open carrying?

    Then one Sunday morning the alarm went off and this time I was open carrying and went to the neighbor's driveway and waited for the police. He rolled up, looked at my gun and said, "You got a permit for that?" Trying to defuse the situation before it became a situation, I said that I do, but I didn't think I needed a permit on private property. He said, "Oh no, you don't it's not that, I just figured you had a permit. Let's wait for backup and we'll see what's going on." Backup came, we walked through the garage, they drew their guns and WE went in. They were impressive. It was another false alarm.

    But, BTW, as I understand it, an ordnance has been passed that states if the police are dispatched three times to a false alarm, the owner has to pay. It's his right to have an alarm and to exercise that right, but there may be undesireable consequences.

  12. #41
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    Ron - interesting experiences - and yeah I think these days you can pretty much kiss the popo goodbye if an alarm false triggers three times.

    Can't say I blame them really as it must be a severe waste of time and resources.

    I was thinking (yet again) of how casually we usually regard car alarms - it ain't ''oh my - someone is stealing a car'' - it's more like - ''oh crap, another darned car alarm''!!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LPguy
    I have a neighbor who has the word "Packin" for a license plate. I often ask myself "What is this guy trying to prove?"
    Mike
    A guy with a very expensive car had a license plate with a name affilated with drug dealing, but really he had nothing to do with drugs. The name just had a dual meaning. The cops would stop and give him citations often. He had letters from the judge explaining the situation about the name but it did no good.
    ==
    Tangle the true life story seems to carry so much better, thanks for the great real life event.
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    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
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  14. #43
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    Talking

    Heard the myna birds around hospital parking lots are starting to sound like the doctor's BMW car alarms :)

    Strong side carry. IWB/OWB, open or concealed, allows me to cover with my strong arm to avoid causing fright in the audience. Looks like I'm Frankenstein's cousin, though.

    The benefit of CC is you retain the element of surprise (remember the collateral video of Tom Cruise.) An incident to point occurred in TN last year. GG returning to parked car, accosted by two armed BG's was marched to nearest ATM, withdrew max daily limit in cash, marched to car and forced to drive BG's to his home. At home, one BG moved to livingroom while other BG forced GG to the bedroom to look for jewelry and cash. As BG turned to the search, GG was able to draw and shoot from concealment. The other BG, thinking the execution had gone down ok, came waltzing back to the BR where he got it too.

    My take is that if he (or Tom C) had been carring open, the BG's first move would have been a disarm. If an opportunity or an opening hasn't presented by the time you feel very, very uncomfortable, you must make it yourself.

    So close to being a member I can taste it
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  15. #44
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    gunthorp - that is indeed an excellent illustration of the benefit from concealed - it'd be hard to argue against it.

    Playing keyboard commando tho it'd seem possible the GG was too far in condition white, to be able to be so successfully accosted.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy
    Tangle, I am assuming that the guy was inside the vehicle (I know, when you assume...) but I would love to know why he removed the gun and how he did it. If the moron made a big production of it then yes, he deserves the ticket. If he was carefully removing it but luck has it that a passerby saw him, he does not deserve the ticket because he wasn't being careless but just targeted by a nervous idiot.

    XD, as a Floridian you have a great ally in a book:Florida's Firearms Laws by Jon Gutmacher. It is the most comprenhensive and up to date book you can find in the subject and Mr. Gutmacher not only gives you good advice about the law itself but about how to be smart about having and carrying a gun. I am sure you can find it at your next Gun Show or you can order it online in several sites.
    Unfortunately I don't know any of the details. I appreciate the info on the book, I think I will get one ordered. You just can't be too informed.

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