Employers and HCP
This is a discussion on Employers and HCP within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just posted this over on another forum. I am trying to get broad input.
I've been Google'ing for a while now and can't find ...
March 2nd, 2008 08:17 AM
Employers and HCP
I just posted this over on another forum. I am trying to get broad input.
I've been Google'ing for a while now and can't find anything. Does anyone know if an employer has ever lost a substantial lawsuit due to their firearms policy?
Say I am driving to work and get carjacked shot and wounded. How much of a case would I have if I sue on the basis of, I have a TN HCP but I was in transit to work, since my employer prohibits firearms on the property I could not carry to defend myself. Therefore their policy endangered my life off of company grounds.
March 2nd, 2008 08:55 AM
I would say not a chance.
Say they require you to come into work outside of your normal working hours in a terrible snow/ice storm and you do. You then get in an accident and are seriously injured. Can you sue them for requiring you to come into work?
Your time is your time, the company's time is theirs. I think the question in your state and company is - can your car be searched because it is on private property? To not be able to carry in the workplace is one thing, but to restrict it on the property (i.e. the parking lot) when the person is a licensed CCW is a liitle draconian; however, they are allowed to restrict firearms as they see fit, your employment there is dependent on your adherence to their policies, standards of conduct and rules. Your best chance is to work with them to allow secure storage of your firearm in your vehicle.
Good luck with that.
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
March 2nd, 2008 09:35 AM
I agree with semperfi. B.T W. Welcome to the forum from central Mississippi.
March 2nd, 2008 09:41 AM
I don't think you will find a case where that has happened. As Semperfi said, your on your time not company time. I don't think you will even find where they lost a case where it happened on company property. Although they should be required to protect you, they are not. Just like there is no requirement for the police to protect you from crime.
March 2nd, 2008 10:22 AM
As long as you've signed something from the employer on their company policy stating that you understand they have a 'no weapons/firearm' policy, they can pretty much fire you with no problem and no real fear of any legal action by you, as far as I know.
In FL, you can't really be prosecuted for carrying at work if it's not allowed by policy, unless it's one of the 'no-go' places, just canned.
March 2nd, 2008 12:03 PM
I don't have anything to add except..................That policy really blows.
March 2nd, 2008 12:07 PM
Check your state laws. Some states don't allow employers to restrict firearms in vehicles. They may refuse to allow you to carry at work, but they can't keep you from locking your weapon in your vehicle during the day.
If that's not the case where you live, is there public parking close enough for you to park your vehicle off company property and walk or ride the rest of the way?
March 2nd, 2008 01:06 PM
Am not an attorney, but I would agree with the others that, essentially, your time is your time. Until you're on-site at the employer's facility, it's your time and your problem.
Originally Posted by chipperi
Nobody says you have to park on company property, nor drive to or from work unarmed. Pick another option, if you're going to absolutely follow the letter of the policy. For example, drive to and from the property armed, park off property, then re-arm once you re-enter your vehicle for the trip home.
... if I sue on the basis of, I have a TN HCP but I was in transit to work, since my employer prohibits firearms on the property I could not carry to defend myself. Therefore their policy endangered my life off of company grounds.
Granted, the property layout of some employers can make it difficult to disarm in your vehicle prior to arrival, given the distances or security checkpoints involved.
In most places, property rights dictate that the company has say over the use of its property, effectively supporting the right of the company to have a requirement (ie, no weapons) in exchange for entrance or employment there. Little different than your own home, in which you certainly would like to retain control over who is approved entry ... for whatever reason. Though, as noted, some states disallow the business practice, given the nature of employment.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
March 2nd, 2008 01:10 PM
Does your company require you to drive to work? Does your company require you to park on their property. Is it your personal car or a company vehicle.
If your company requires you to drive your personal vehicle to work and park it on their property you may have a case but otherwise I would say your chances aren't very good in holding them liable. Parking spaces for most employees would be considered a perk. Think of how many companies that do not provide any parking at all for employees. One company that I worked for provided parking for only about one-half of it's employees. The rest had to find parking on their own usually at a premium rate. That was one of the disadvantages transfering to the corporate office. You had to get a significant raise just to pay the parking.
March 2nd, 2008 02:43 PM
There is absolutely no case. A person or company cannot be held liable for the criminal act of another. Does not even matter if the criminal is an employee of the company. In order for a company to be held liable for the acts of its employees, the employee must be within the course and scope of his employment. Criminal acts would not be in the course and scope of his employment.
The closest type of case you will come is a failure to provide adequate security despite strong evidence that security is necessary. This would not apply to your scenario though.
March 2nd, 2008 02:52 PM
The only cases I am even vaguely aware of has involved companies that hired armed security. The armed security used their weapons to stop an armed robbery but the rounds hit inocent bystanders (witnesses). The companies were sued for inadequate security qualifications. I am unaware of the outcomes of those cases.
March 2nd, 2008 03:04 PM
Never say never. A lot would depend on your state and the creativity of your attorney. New case law is made all the time. The biggest problem you would have filing such a case is the legal cost. You would need someone to bank roll you, be independently wealthy or have an attorney that would take the case pro bono.
It would not cheap or easy.
March 2nd, 2008 05:31 PM
Lets say you were called in to work during snow storm and you were ordered not to use your snow tires (told to keep them at home ) and you were stuck and died ? could you then sue ? ( same thing to me)
Originally Posted by semperfi.45
March 2nd, 2008 07:06 PM
I am quite familiar with the terrible weather deal as I worked with a power company for over 20 years. Over the years there were several changes made on the policy and the last that I heard was that if there was a storm during regular hours and if you made an attempt to get to work but wound up in a ditch you got the time off with pay. If you just decided that it wa too bad to try it you took vacation time. If it was after hours and they wanted you there then they would seen a ATV after you and we had some that would go through any snow, ice or water we ever experienced.
The point is that there were accidents but the company was never responsible for damages that I ever heard of. One of the reasons for the policiy was that some complained that they had to come to work because of their job being an "essential" employee where others got a free day off by saying the roads were too bad. But the company never said how you were supposed to get to work. Didn't matter if you drove, rode the bus or flew a helicopter.
March 2nd, 2008 08:11 PM
chipperi, the way you explained it; NO CHANCE unless the carjacking occurred on company property. A better chance if it occurred on company property and the perp was an employee of the company.
The fact that you weren't allowed to carry on company property or have a gun locked in your car in the company parking lot, even though you had a CCW, would not even enter in to it.
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
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