What is considered 'Loaded'

What is considered 'Loaded'

This is a discussion on What is considered 'Loaded' within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just took my CCW class, and we didnt really touch base on this, and i forgot to ask the LEO that was telling us ...

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Thread: What is considered 'Loaded'

  1. #1
    Member Array apierce918's Avatar
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    What is considered 'Loaded'

    I just took my CCW class, and we didnt really touch base on this, and i forgot to ask the LEO that was telling us about the legal parts.

    In michigan, you can carry a concealed pistol with permit in state parks while hiking and camping providing that the pistol is unloaded (dumb maybe, but w/e) well, if i have a magazine in the gun, but there IS NOT a round in the chamber, is that still considered loaded?

    they only let you have it loaded if its during a hunting season where firearms are allowed and in a designated area open to hunting.


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    I would say that no bullets in the gun period. Not just chambered , but the magazine removed from the pistol
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    The definition of loaded varies by different states laws.

    I define loaded as having a source of ammunition in the firearm. IE. chamber empty, full magazine inserted=still loaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    I just took my CCW class, and we didnt really touch base on this, and i forgot to ask the LEO that was telling us about the legal parts.

    In michigan, you can carry a concealed pistol with permit in state parks while hiking and camping providing that the pistol is unloaded (dumb maybe, but w/e) well, if i have a magazine in the gun, but there IS NOT a round in the chamber, is that still considered loaded?

    they only let you have it loaded if its during a hunting season where firearms are allowed and in a designated area open to hunting.
    Here is the way I get around that. I get a small game license every year. Since there is no closed season on some small game (skunks, possums, etc.) as long I'm wearing an orange ball cap, I am not breaking the law.

    To answer your original question, I believe the state would consider your gun loaded if the mag was seated even though there was a round in the chamber. It's a pretty easy conclusion when you look at the transporting regs that say your gun must unloaded, placed in a case or truck of your vehicle with the ammunition kept separate.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Definition of loaded:
    "Loaded" with respect to a firearm means:
    (a) There is ammunition in the chamber of the firearm; or
    (b) There is ammunition in the cylinder of the firearm; or
    (c) There is ammunition in the magazine of a firearm, if the magazine is attatched to the firearm.
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    Most states have different laws. Example: Florida’s Fish and Wildlife commission changed the rules and now CCL holders can carry on state managed wildlife, property.

    Federal parks define “an unloaded firearm” by the ammo and firearms stored in different locations.

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    Some laws in MI specifically mention "unloaded on both barrel AND magazine." If you've got a hunting license, you can pack a loaded pistol but it had better not be concealed (even your coat covering it due to weather is still concealed). If You've got your state CPL, then you can carry a concealed, loaded pistol on state lands (parks, forests) anytime for defensive reason, as long as there is no attempt to take game. For further info check out DNR - Department of Natural Resources. click on "ask DNR" and search or browse the hundreds of FAQs.
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    Member Array apierce918's Avatar
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    found new stuff

    edit :
    well i just found this
    Does my valid Concealed Pistol License allow me to carry a concealed pistol in a state park?
    Yes. MCL 324.504 states that the DNR cannot promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits a ccw holder from carrying on property under the control of the DNR.
    but before i saw this
    A person licensed to carry a concealed pistol may possess a pistol while hiking or camping within a state park provided that the pistol is not loaded. A person licensed to carry a concealed pistol may possess a loaded pistol within a state park only during established hunting seasons on lands designated open to hunting or at a target range established by the Department of Natural Resources or during an officially sanctioned field trial.

    A person licensed to carry a concealed pistol is subject to the rules, regulations, and orders of the Department of Natural Resources regulating the possession of firearms and may not possess or carry a pistol while hunting deer during "bow and arrow only" hunting season, unless the person is licensed to hunt deer with a firearm and is hunting in an area open to firearm deer hunting.
    since the first one was from the states website, im assuming it CAN be loaded... second quote was maybe from an older law?

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    If you want a particularly stupid definition of 'loaded', have a look at the Maryland statutes. You can have an empty gun locked in yout trunk, but if there is a filled magazine stored in the trunk, too, you are guilty of transporting a loaded weapon.
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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I am having trouble finding where Michigan says it is illegal to carry a firearm at state parks...what I have found says that you are exempt if you have a permit.

    2004-PA-0130

    Sec. 504. (1) The department shall promulgate rules for the protection of the lands and property under its control against wrongful use or occupancy as will ensure the carrying out of the intent of this part to protect the lands and property from depredations and to preserve the lands and property from molestation, spoilation, destruction, or any other improper use or occupancy.

    (2) This section does not allow the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (3) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.
    It looks like section 3 exempts you...This came from Michigans website. Does anybody know if this was changed?

    and from MCRGO - Frequently Asked Questions about Michigan Gun Laws

    Q: I have a Mi. CPL. Can I carry a concealed pistol in Mi. State Parks?
    A: Yes. The DNR can no longer regulate CPL holders as long as they do not attempt to take game with their firearm. Carrying a pistol in an area frequented by game without a hunting license is allowed if the individual has a concealed weapon permit. Ref: PA 129 & PA 130. The DNR cannot promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits a CPL holder from carrying on property under the control of the DNR.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    since the first one was from the states website, im assuming it CAN be loaded... second quote was maybe from an older law?
    Probably. The DNR used to give CPL holders a hard time early in the game, but I've read in many places where they changed their tune and (I think because of a ruling) will no longer infringe on the states concealed carry law.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    since 2004,state laws were modfied to allow cpl holders to carry in
    state parks(as cupcake mentioned) see pa 129-130. also check
    out mcl 324.43510 and mcl 324.504. it states youcan now carry
    in a statepark the same as you can carry in other public places.
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  13. #13
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    What is considered loaded?

    Well, I would say that more than 5 straight shots of whiskey would qualify as being "loaded."


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    Just took my non-resident Utah CCW class last week and this topic came up. According to our instructor, in Utah as long as there is not one in the chamber, it is considered unloaded. Mag inserted is fine.
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  15. #15
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    Here are a couple of great links to help answer and questions about MI CPL laws:

    MCRGO - Frequently Asked Questions about Michigan Gun Laws

    MSP - Michigan's Concealed Pistol Law - FAQs

    Find Answers (Page 1 of 11)

    The 3rd above is from the DNR and has tons of info and when the questions were answered. You can even sign up to recieve e-mail notification if the question/answer is ever updated!
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