March 8th, 2008 06:28 PM
I think all thought of "holding" someone or cuffing them should be rejected unless you have at least three people to do the "holding" and no other persons present who may be inclined to assist the BG. The last thing you want is for the BG to get control of your weapon. All efforts should be made to prevent that from happening and to me that means you don't get near the BG if it's possible to avoid doing so.
Also, presenting and not shooting is ok if there is adequate space between you and the BG to make it workable. Your best friend is distance. If something looks questionable try to maintain distance. The only problem is most assailants can cover 25 feet in about 1 1/2 seconds. If an attack is unavoidable however, I would try to get my weapon out in time so it could do me some good before I get knocked flat on my $$$. These are some really tough things to think about but I'm sure of one thing, I would rather be armed than not armed.
March 9th, 2008 12:22 AM
interesting. remember, you can also be sued even if you do not shoot the BG. once you stop the person from his intended path, you have arrested him. so if you draw your weapon, you better be right. split second reaction will stay with you the rest of your life.
March 9th, 2008 12:33 AM
Fortunately, most of the country doesn't follow NJs lead...
Originally Posted by mulle46
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
SC SLED Certified CWP Instructor
March 9th, 2008 11:39 AM
So were worried about an assailant at 21 feet, but we'll walk up on him to detain/handcuff him/her?
What leap of reason (from a cliff) did I miss here?
Police have much greater latitude in applying force than you or I. If they resist the officer from being handcuffed, they recieve a nightstick or such. Since they have stopped doing whatever act it is that made you draw, you no longer have the threat of force to back you up. When you apply force to detain them, you are now known as "The Defendant".
If you stop a violent felony from occuring and the perpetrator is kind enough to lay dopwn and stay there, fine. If he decides to get up and run, there is nothing you can do about it (in most states).
March 21st, 2008 03:53 PM
AFAIK, police officers are the only people who can use a THREAT of deadly force to subdue someone. You are only licensed/allowed to defend your life or the life of a third party who is in imminent danger with that handgun.
You can tackle him and use panty hose or barbed wire to tie him up but you can't use the handgun to forcibly keep him against his will.
Try wrestling him to the ground if you want to subdue him. If it turns out he's a Brazillian Jiu Jitsu master, shoot him when he gets the upper hand. At that point you ARE in danger of great bodily injury or death. In my state either is reason to use deadly force.
A.) You've established he can deal you great bodily harm or
B.) He can take your weapon from you and use it against you.
March 21st, 2008 10:06 PM
This kind of reminds me of a good friend years ago, just out of downtown Houston. He was working construction and in a company truck turned off the main drag onto a side street to the construction site, and there was a 16-18 young black girl maybe 110 pounds who had an little grayhaired black lady draging her around by her purse. He drives over the curb, jumps out and shouts "STOP". Young girl looks up sees this 200 pound white guy, and decides that granny can keep the purse, heads off down the sidewalk. Buddy thinks this hero stuff is cool and going well so proceeds to try to run the girl down on foot and hold her for police. A half block he is gaining and then the sweet young thing spins around with the "BIGGEST DANG SWITCHBLADE" he had ever seen. At this point he decides the this hero stuff may not be all it seems and realy needs to think the events over and to do a little more research into the subject over a beer that evening.
March 21st, 2008 10:58 PM
A lot of good stuff here...For me, either my life, my wifes life or someone in my immediate areas life, would have to be in mortal danger. At only 175 lbs., I'm not about to try and handcuff anyone. I don't know anything about this guy, so distance is my friend. Situations vary...if he's in my house in the middle of the night he gets nothing but buckshot...no verbal anything...If I'm in a parking lot somewhere and bg produces knife but I'm able to get the draw on him and he freezes at the sight of the gun, then he will comply or else. Like most people I hope, if I can keep from taking a life, I will. Some situations happen very quickly though, and hesitation will get you or someone you love killed...Hopefully I'll never be inserted into a situation where lethal force is the only option, and thankfully that's been the case so far. I certainly don't walk around glaring at every stranger with my hand on my gun. But there is a lot of evil in the world so you have to be ready for it. Situational awareness and a cool head under fire are paramount. Panic is enemy number one. Hesitation leads very quickly to stress...If I'm not going to have to go lethal then it's imperitive that I obtain immediate control of the situation which envolves nothing short of his total compliance. Once that's achieved my stress level will start to come down a little. (hopefully) No distracting dialog for me...anything he says will be cut off with a very loud shut up! The situations of when and when not to use lethal force are legion...multiple bgs, hostage on and on and on...There's no one formula. For me the main thing is to try to hit them with loud, fast and overwhelming domination...lethal or not. (hopefully not)
Last edited by Captain Crunch; March 22nd, 2008 at 12:32 AM.
Reason: Deleted a language workaround.
"Any rationally thinking person is armed"
---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis
March 21st, 2008 11:07 PM
YMMV, but there are several states, TX included, where the threat of lethal force is allowed if use of force is allowed. That means I do not have to be justified in the use of lethal force to use the threat of lethal force.
Originally Posted by SuicideHz
The threat of lethal force counts only as force...For me, if I am allowed to swing back, I am allowed to draw and get sight picture. If he breaks off the engagement we are done, if he continues to advance, I have to assume he
1. knows I have a gun
2. knows I will shoot
3. thinks he can harm me anyway
If I assume 1, 2, and 3, I will fire; Make no mistake about it. God, I love being a Texan.
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