SC CWP : need your input here

This is a discussion on SC CWP : need your input here within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok SC guys. Our law says we are to present our CWP, basically, whenever we are approached by LE on official business. Here's what happened ...

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Thread: SC CWP : need your input here

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    SC CWP : need your input here

    Ok SC guys. Our law says we are to present our CWP, basically, whenever we are approached by LE on official business.

    Here's what happened today. One of our vendors, driving a large truck (basically a 20 foot box truck) attempted to back around the building due being blocked from going forward, and barely caught the edge of the metal roofing. Very minor damage, but since we do not own the building, we had to call LE to make a paper trail.

    After waiting for HP to show up to make the report, I walk out to the trooper who is looking at the building, and he asks if I am the owner. I tell him "no, I am the assistant manager, and we lease it". He says "I need a business card then". I go back in and grab a card. I take it back out to him, and go back inside to wait on my customers.


    He has not asked for ANY information from me.

    After a few minutes, he comes inside and asks if I am the general manager. Again I tell him " no, I am the assistant". Then I offer to get the manager.

    He says please do.

    I bring the manager up front, at which point the Trooper asks for his name and some details. I was busy with customers, so I didn't hear the whole thing, but mine nor my boss' CWP was ever presented.

    Since I never made any statement, or was asked anything I believe I had no reason to present. I do believe that my boss should have presented.

    AM I wrong? Should I have presented, just because I knew why the Trooper was there?

    Should I remind the boss of his error?
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

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  3. #2
    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    quote chapter and verse of the law and we could make sense of it. Basically doesn't do it.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array jframe38's Avatar
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    XD - I know that we are a "show" state but I'm thinking it wasn't like the LEO pulled you over for a traffic violation. As long as everything turned out fine I just might discuss the issue w/your boss but I wouldn't point out that it was an "error" on their part. They may not agree w/you and then you might have other problems if it's taken a little too personal.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    To me showing would cause unnecessary attention to yourself. If you are armed, no one should know it unless you are required to notify by state law.
    One more step and it's on!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array WoodLark's Avatar
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    I am definitely not an attorney, and can only give you my personal opinion. Under SC law you are allowed to carry in your place of business without a CWP. Therefore, you did not need a CWP. Also, the LEO did not ask for your ID (Driver's License), but asked only for a business card which is merely contact info. Had he asked for your DL, then you should have also handed him the CWP and informed him that you were carrying.
    Earth is the insane asylum of the universe!

  7. #6
    Member Array apierce918's Avatar
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    In michigan its states if you are stopped, for traffic violation or otherwise. I wouldnt consider either of you were "stopped" but again, how they word it in SC could make the difference.

    edit: although they do also say you should present both if asked for identification, so maybe he should have! :O
    Last edited by apierce918; March 5th, 2008 at 12:53 AM. Reason: kept reading :)

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder.
    Technically you should have informed the officer but under the circumstances I think it would probably just have caused confusion. All of the officers I have ever talked to on this say that unless there is a possibility that they may find it (possible search, reaching for drivers license, registation, etc.) they rather not know. In this case he was just asking for ID/business card to make out the report that you had requested. If he had asked for DL it would have been a different case. Of course there is always the Barney Fife that would get upset and pull the technicality on you and there are a few of those in SC but the exception rather than the rule.

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    Member Array Volodymyr's Avatar
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    I think this is an issue of common sense (I guess our government rarely works that way though so maybe not)... if the officer is in any way under potential threat you should tell him you are armed so he knows, say he goes back to run your name and sees you have CCP- now he wonders next time he goes up to the window if he is going to get shot. Chances are if you told him you were armed, you weren't going to turn around and shoot him.

    Since the cop wasn't there screwing up your day, and you had no reason to want to do him harm, he was at no risk, so probably could have cared less.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Florida’s a unless your asked you don’t have to tell state. But, keep in mind when our drivers license is pulled up it list CCL status.

    In your state, reading over your law, your required to hand it to the officer, if he asks you for “ID”. A business card is a form of “ID”, but not an official form.



    Since, everything worked out “ok” I’d leave sleeping dogs’ lye.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    Technically you should have informed the officer but under the circumstances I think it would probably just have caused confusion. All of the officers I have ever talked to on this say that unless there is a possibility that they may find it (possible search, reaching for drivers license, registation, etc.) they rather not know. In this case he was just asking for ID/business card to make out the report that you had requested. If he had asked for DL it would have been a different case. Of course there is always the Barney Fife that would get upset and pull the technicality on you and there are a few of those in SC but the exception rather than the rule.
    Guys I was directing this towards SC permit holders, that is why I didn't quote the law. There was a post running about this very topic earlier.

    Although next time, I will title it SC CWP holders.


    FN1910 thanks. Although he never introduced himself as LE. I will guess that once again our legislature assumes that if they are in uniform, that is all the introduction we need. He never asked me for ID, just my boss. Technically, he was wrong by not showing.

    It would solve a lot if SC tied the DL to CWP, but that opens a whole new level of problems.

    BTW, on another topic, SC is seriously looking at the Read ID Act which is going to change alot of thigs.

    I am not worried about telling my boss he was wrong, it won't affect anything. We took the class together, just for the protection of ourselves and the shop.

    And, how did you know Barney Fife worked locally? HE actually worked here when I was growing up.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

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    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I think it says Approached by an LEO in his official capacity... so... Check. This would technically qualify.

    I think it says "if your carrying".... were you? I checked that verbiage out a few months back and recall that it specifically said if you were carrying. Not just if you have a permit. Which made sense. Not carrying, don't identify, Carrying and asked questions pertinent to an official stop or investigation, identify. Passing on the street and saying Hello... don't identify. Ask to stop and show license, identify...

    I think, if you were carrying and he approached you because he as doing an investigation that, Technically, you were supposed to have identified. I agree that it was nonsensical in this sort of "official capacity" and "situation" but... thats the way I read it. However I kind of agree with your actions. I probably would have done the same thing. Particularly since he never asked YOU for any identification at any time. Thats the real tickler I think. If you have to officially identify either verbally or by presenting license then I would identify CWP. For certain. You were indeed in a very Grey area. I think holding off until that point was crossed was wise. But... I am no lawyer.

    The only time I have had to produce mine was sort of similar... well... you decide.

    My Property up in Pickens county had been broken into. I found it on my weekly visit to check on the place. And I called the Sheriffs Dept to come do a report. When the Sheriff Dept arrived he said "are you Mr Carroll? and I simply handed him both my DL and CWP together. I was carrying in the pocket of my Motorcycle jacket. He looked at them, wrote the info in the report to get that started, and handed them back to me and we got onto chatting about the Deer Scrape right in the driveway! :)

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Yes we both carry daily. It's just an extra step of safety for us.

    We recently(not involved) had a shooting a few doors down from us. The owner came in and asked if we ever got our permits. The manager just lifted his shirt enough, and then went back to work.

    My whole thing on this is if I don't give any information officially, then I am not required. If the LE walks up and says who are you, or were you involved, etc. then I will hand DL and CWP like required.

    The boss had to give his name and some other official info so I think he was supposed to. SC has no way to tell the LE unless they ask. It doesn't just pop up.

    Just wondering how everyone else interpreted that particular section.

    Your scenario required it as far as I am concerned, but would he have ever known otherwise? No. It doesn't show up on a history check.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I doubt he would have known. Had I put the gun in my saddle bag before he got there I wouldn't have even handed him my CWP along with my DL

    I agree with your interpretation.

    Even though you were addressed by an officer in an official capacity you were almost extraneous to the investigation. Its sort of like an officer coming up to you and saying "is this the place the accident happened? And then asking "who do I officially address to find out about this?" Its almost "preliminary directions" he is asking for at that point. As if he was asking directions to a place or person from you. Had he then followed by telling you he wanted you to remain there and he intended to interview you as a witness and see some ID, they its time to flash I think.

  15. #14
    Member Array Hubs's Avatar
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    I had a minor MVA the other day(my fault). Gave the officer my SCDL, insurance, and car registration. Did not give him my CWP as I was not carrying at the time. Officer did not say anything to me about a gun or a CWP. My interpretation of the OP is this: if you are armed, then you must inform the officer.

    The officer, by the way, was incredibly professional and was a good guy. I am planning to send a letter of commendation to his Commander.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubs View Post
    The officer, by the way, was incredibly professional and was a good guy. I am planning to send a letter of commendation to his Commander.
    More people should do this... good on ya!

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