Student expelled for loaded guns in car - Page 2

Student expelled for loaded guns in car

This is a discussion on Student expelled for loaded guns in car within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; in michigan he would have been ok if its in his car...

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Thread: Student expelled for loaded guns in car

  1. #16
    Member Array apierce918's Avatar
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    in michigan he would have been ok if its in his car


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I wish some would play devil's advocate for a second...not too long ago, a guy who was considered highly by his teachers and classmates, who was studying criminal justice...went into an auditorium and blew away a bunch of innocent students. Then kills himself. Same with a girl in LA...same with VT...

    So, here is a student that writes some disturbing story about committing suicide, blowing away teachers etc...has not one gun, but 3 guns in his car, including a rifle...was an Iraq war vet (uh, lots of stories of alarming PTSD rise amongst Iraqi war vets)...I think the hair on the back of my neck would rise too.


    Rick
    +1

    I think it is just a precaution that needed to be taken. I mean if he went on a rampage we would all be saying "Didn't anyone see the signs"

    It sucks if he isn't crazy and has to have everything overturned but I'm not sure I can blame the staff of the school.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    ok so a vet with a clean bill according to the federal government. is involuntarily commited because of a paper he wrote in school involving thougts of suicide, and harming others? maybe i should just reup and skip college cause im sure i'd write something similar.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    ok so a vet with a clean bill according to the federal government. is involuntarily commited because of a paper he wrote in school involving thougts of suicide, and harming others? maybe i should just reup and skip college cause im sure i'd write something similar.
    I would not trust the DoD clean bill, they just might not want to pay ant benefits.

    It sucks about the involuntry commitment, but my understanding is thaat if you are detained for an psych evalu then you are involuntary commited.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    It is a broken process, but yes he plays a part as current law works. It does take a magistrate. But the LEO has the first judgement role and can detain you for evaluation (I think for four hours) w/o any criminal issues. It is a civil matter. See my earlier post on the new bill we are pushing.

    To move it off the campus issue for another example:

    Someone calls LO and says you are a danger to yourself, or others. A LEO is dispatched and makes the initial judgement. If the LEO judges you to be a danger, you are unarmed, detained, and taken to a medical facility. Next the Doctors, Magistrates, etc get involved. A quick initial "Professional" judgement is made and you can the be held for days for "evaluation", or released as no danger. Then after an indepth evaluation, you are either released (as no danger) or committed for "Treatment."



    It is not a matter of criminal action.

    His CHP can be revoked if the court "finds, by a preponderance of the evidence, based on specific acts by the applicant, is likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently to endanger others. The sheriff, chief of police, or attorney for the Commonwealth may submit to the court a sworn written statement indicating that, in the opinion of such sheriff, chief of police, or attorney for the Commonwealth, based upon a disqualifying conviction or upon the specific acts set forth in the statement, the applicant is likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently to endanger others."

    His guns can be seized "for his own protection."

    To make it worse, the process to reverse all that is very weak and fuzzy in the current law -- even if you are found to be "no danger" early in the process.

    The bill I posted about earlier, (HB 815 see: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...81+ful+HB815H3) in the works that makes sense. Let hope it passes and Kaine signs it.

    This bill improves current law by allowing for restoration of rights, and requires better due process before rights are lost. See: 1.B. of HB 815. For example, under the new bill the lose of rights would not happen until after the "evaluation" not just because you are detained, or involuntary committed for evaluation. Under the new bill the court needs to order that the defendant receive treatment to restore his competency (not just detained for evaluated) before the loss of rights. Also, the restoration of rights process is spelled out and it is appeal-able -- with de nova hearings.

    Wish us luck. We need it!
    Thanks for the earlier posting, I was going to try to explain it but you did a better job than I did.
    I hated the laws regarding VCU, but that's for another thread. I think a lot of students are silent on the issue because they are concerned for their own welfare, at least I was. I didn't want to be the "whistleblower" or the "troublemaker" until I was out. I also didn't want to throw away all that hard work if I was "outed" on campus. I guess getting dead wouldn't have helped either? Now that I have my degree in hand, I am going to get involved in the issue. There is no reason responsible adults should not be able to carry their weapons on a public college campus. Shoot, VCU takes up nearly half the city now anyway!

    I told my brother this story and he said, "So you still think you don't live in a Nazi state?"
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  6. #21
    Member Array uakaos's Avatar
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    you cant predict what people are really thinking. i for one believe the kid and think this whole thing is a croc.
    yea stuff has happened in the past.
    if you stub your toe in your house then you shouldnt be able walk anywhere.
    if you are living in the past the only thing getting hurt is your future.
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

  7. #22
    Member Array kf4uel's Avatar
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    RE

    Well see what happens when you give in to a search request, Now he has no grounds to say the search was unjust.

    I got an F in high school on all my English papers about issues that I thought were important, switched to a sheep topic and got an A.

    So basically the county can just get a TDO on you if someone perceives that you're dangerous??
    "What if? If not, who needs seatbelts, life rafts, and fire extingishers. Sure theres other ways, if thats what you want... I know ill be alive, dry, and not on fire!"

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  8. #23
    New Member Array Lensgrinder's Avatar
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    Campus Police thought process:
    Ability: Iraqi Vet... CHECK
    Intent: "Fictional" story of shooting your professor and/or yourself... CHECK
    Oppurtunity: Loaded weapons in your vehicle on campus... CHECK

    How can they NOT take this seriously???

    On the other side: An Iraqi Vet should have the Situational Awareness to realize that he is placing himself under scrutiny, and take precautions.
    Write a story that reflects current events... 1st Amendment right!!!
    Using your professor's first name in the story... lack of imagination or subtle threat?
    Carrying weapons onto campus... 2nd Amendment right, but unwise considering the situation that HE is creating.
    Submitting to an unwarranted search... Stupid!

    So who is wrong here?

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Lens.

    The math adds up to stupid and/or crazy on the part of the accused.
    The campus police were rightful to not ignore this person and to press charges.

    - Seung-Hui Cho
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Once had teachers thinking I was threatening the school because I posted the lyrics to Devil went down to Georgia.

    The main problem here is that he was released and given a clean bill of health from the mental hospital and still lost his rights. That is like saying "Well, you're innocent of that robbery but the public wants justice, so sorrry"
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  11. #26
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    An adult was involuntarily committed and his rights taken away. What crime took place?

    From the article:

    "College Vice Chancellor Gary Juhan, who would not confirm the expulsion, said the school took seriously the concerns raised by the content of the student's paper.

    "One of the most impossible things to do is predict human behavior," he said.

    Yet they did just that.

    Did the student make an error in judgment? Of course, but the punishment does not fit the circumstances.

    What has happened is the university/government has denied students the right to protect themselves, which then forces the univ/govt to overcompensate by restricting even more rights - even so far as to incarcerate those who committed no crime - to limit their exposure to a potential liability they created in the first place.

    The slippery slope just got a little steeper.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKelly View Post
    An adult was involuntarily committed and his rights taken away. What crime took place?
    [QUOTE=JohnKelly;661987]

    As I pointed out earlier see #15. No crime need take place in VA. It's a civil, not criminal matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKelly View Post
    The slippery slope just got a little steeper.
    With any luck HB 815 will get signed and the slope will be a little less slipper, for us.

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    03/08/08 Senate: Reading of conference report waived
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  13. #28
    Member Array credy's Avatar
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    If it's legal to have guns on campus in VA, can the school really get a search warrant to enforce their policy? I can understand searching his dorms and his person, but I find it really hard to believe they would be able to snoop through his vehicle if he wasn't suspected of breaking anything but campus policy.

  14. #29
    Member Array corncob's Avatar
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    An expulsion over guns makes a lot more sense than this.

    Student suspended for buying Skittles at school - CNN.com

  15. #30
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    In my english class we were told the first day not to write anything about violence since it could be looked at in a negative way and possibly get us in trouble. Good thing I was warned because thats exactly the type of stuff id write about.

    I find it stupid but I think its common knowledge now a days not to write about such stuff at school. What has America come to? So much for free speech!

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