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I Do Not Feel This Is Fair!

4K views 36 replies 22 participants last post by  pax 
#1 ·
I carry an out of state CCW permit from Maine but live in Missouri. Yesterday I notice that my driver license expires in 6 months and my CCW permit expires in 1-1-09 so I thought I go to the sheriff office to apply for a permit of my own state. That way my driver license and my carry permit have the same new address on them. So I took my papperwork and proof of my new resident to the sheriff office. I was told there that my instructor is not an instructor he approves of and handed me a list of instructors he does approve of. Now my instructor was a police officer who taught other police officers. He is a qualified, license instuctor in Missouri. Now how come a sheriff can deny me a permit because he does not approve of my instuctor even though he is a legal instructor. He wants me to take my classes over from one of his approve instructors. That means paying for the class again when I already payed for it the first time. I was stunned when I was told this. It does not seem fair! Has anyone have problems like this in their state?
 
#2 ·
Missouri's training requirements must be very specific as to who can teach. In my state of WV, as long as its an NRA certified instructor(your certificate says NRA on it) you can take any course,even firearms safety in the home and use that for your CCW.
Is this a state requirement or is your county telling you who you must take the course through? Doesn't sound right to me.
 
#3 ·
It doesn't sound fair. Likely he's getting kick-backs from his 'approved instructors'. Sounds like a racket to me. Be careful who you contact about this, and I probably wouldn't make a stink until after you get your permit.

Racket:
1. a loud noise or clamor, esp. of a disturbing or confusing kind; din; uproar: The traffic made a terrible racket in the street below.
2. social excitement, gaiety, or dissipation.
3. an organized illegal activity, such as bootlegging or the extortion of money from legitimate business people by threat or violence.
4. a dishonest scheme, trick, business, activity, etc.: the latest weight-reducing racket.
5. Usually, the rackets. organized illegal activities: Some say that the revenue from legalized gambling supports the rackets.
6. Slang.
a. an occupation, livelihood, or business.
b. an easy or profitable source of livelihood.
–verb (used without object)
7. to make a racket or noise.
8. to take part in social gaiety or dissipation.
 
#5 ·
As I gather its the coice the sheriff can make.
But who ultimately issues your state's permit? The state police? The department of revenue? Or the county sheriff's department?
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
Well that is something I'm not sure of. But you do have to apply at the sheriff office of your county.

Ram Rod I checked the law and it doesn't state he can do this but by talking to others, I'm told its within his rights. He was very polite through this session. He offered for my instructor to fax him his qualifications and his lessons plan. But that would be imposible for me to do since my instuctor took an asignment in Russia to train law enforcement there.
 
#9 ·
Interesting. I guess I'm just leery of things that just don't sound right from the get go. It's also sad to say---many agencies will in fact attempt to put one over on their constituents--bargaining on them not knowing the true facts. I'm not anti-system really, it's just you hear so much of the illegal activities from public offices so much any more. Knowing the laws and your rights up front will help in your finding the truth.
 
#11 ·
Ram Rod I checked the law and it doesn't state he can do this but by talking to others, I'm told its within his rights. He was very polite through this session. He offered for my instructor to fax him his qualifications and his lessons plan. But that would be imposible for me to do since my instuctor took an asignment in Russia to train law enforcement there.
Sounds like you might just have to compromise here if you want your permit. From the Sheriff's side it almost sounds like some type of kick back. But, think of how it sounds to him when you tell him you can't get your instructors qualifications because he took a job in Russia!
 
#12 ·
I guess I missed the part in my education where they taught me that life was fair. As a matter of fact, my CHL course taught me that life isn't fair...that's why I carry a gun. If everything was fair, I wouldn't need one.

Unless I am misreading your post, it sounds like you took a course in Maine, and want that course to work for a resident license in Missouri? If that is the case, I don't blame the Sheriff for telling you he wants you to take an instate course. The laws vary greatly state by state, and as most courses cover the relative use of force statutes of that state, I can understand where the sheriff is coming from.

We have to take a refresher course everytime we want our permit renewed, and while some might think it's a waste of time/money, I think it's just par for the course. And who knows? Something might have slipped through the legislature without me being aware. Fourtunately with DC.com, that's unlikely, but judging by the number of member's here, and the number of licenses throughout the U.S., it's doubtful that most license holders are as up to date as most of the members on this board.
 
#16 ·
Kerbouchard my course was taken in Misouri by a license Missouri instuctor. The reason I have an out of state permit is because when this law was accepted in Missouri, some counties fought it. My county at that time ( St. Louis County) was one of the main countys that fought this new law. So a lot of us St. Louisians got our permits from other states. If our county didn't want our money some where else would except us while they fought their battle. As you, I took the require classes to acquire my permit. I also took advance classes that was not required by my state. I took my classes from a qualified, legal instuctor in Missouri who trained other law enforcement officers. You make it sound like I'm on here whining and crying, which I'm not. Just stateing a fact that I feel this is unfair and do others have this problem in their state.
 
#17 ·
... I'm told its within his rights. He was very polite through this session. He offered for my instructor to fax him his qualifications and his lessons plan.
I'm going to have a different take on this; the fact he offered to consider your instructor after looking at his qualifcations makes me think there is no kickback. If there was, it would be political suicide. What does a class cost? A $100.? So a kickback would be what... $10? There just isnt enough money in that business to make corruption worth while.

Also, I think its a smart idea for him to do this. He has to sign off on your certificate, and to a degree he is going to be held responsible when somebody does something stupid.
IMO, there are far to many "qualified instructors" who are not qualified to do anything more than fetch carts from walmarts parking lot.

Dont believe me? Take a look at all the posts here about "my instructor told me this or that" Many of those statements are flat wrong.
 
#18 ·
We don't need no stinkin classes in MS!
We all no how to shoot!!
Seriously If he is your sheriff, and has the say so Don't rock the boat!
It sucks, but so does life most of the time!!:scruntiny:
 
#20 ·
And the fact that you see that I'm smart must make you smart too!:wink:Welcome to the smart (ass) club!

I'd just look at it as a refresher, and I promise if you go in with an open mind you will learn some new stuff making it worthwhile. I always do.
 
#23 ·
#24 ·
Ram Rod other states ( as I have a Maine permit ) and other counties may accept my creditentials. But in Missouri, you need to apply in the county you reside in. I should of applied in St. Louis County when the fighting was all over and St. Louis County had to give in to the new law. But at that time it wasn't important to me since I already had a valid permit from another state. I'm just going to reapply to Maine for a renewal. Its valid in Missouri.
 
#25 ·
Sorry Ben, didn't mean to say you were whining..I guess I should stop posting before I have had my morning cup of coffee... ;-)

But seriously, it kind of looks like you knew the county had a problem with your permit/credentials, so you deliberately got an out of state license to circumvent the problems with your county. Now, you are trying to get it in your county and have the same problems and are deciding to circumvent them again.

If that's easier for you, go for it. For me, it would be easier to just get it taken care of, and not have the possibility of a shooting where that same sheriff gets involved, and he looks at your out of state permit. He could take it personally that you decided to circumvent him/the county again. Just my .02.

Anyway, enough of that. And Kudo's to you for going above and beyond the requirements in training.

You asked if any of us have that problem in our states...I haven't heard of it happening here. Our TXDPS website has a specific list of accepted instructors, and it's valid state wide. As a matter of fact, our CHL is issued via Austin regardless of what county we live in. We don't have our local government involved at all.

No matter how many times I hear it, it's still weird for me to hear that some states have their license process vary by county.

Anyway, hope it all works out for you, but assuming it's not a kickback, if the sherriff has personally suggested instructors that he thinks are good, I would probably follow his advice. The same as how when you guys recommend good classes/instructors, I try to attend thos courses when the opportunity presents itself.
 
#26 ·
I believe you are misreading Ben's statements. He lived in St. Louis and when Missouri passed a concealed carry law St. Louis and the county tried to preempt the law. Ben got a Maine permit while all the infighting was going on. He also took the necessary training to qualify for the Missouri permit. Since then he has moved to another county in Missouri and is now applying for a permit there. His Maine permit expires next year and he does not plan to renew that.

The problem he is having is that the sheriff county in which he now resides has his own list of approved instructors and although the instructor who taught Ben is state approved he is not on the sheriff's list. So Ben has to do one of two things: 1) take the class with an instructor approved by the sheriff; or 2) have his original instructor submit his credentials to the sheriff and have the sheriff determine if he should be added to the sheriff's approved list.

Ben, I have to agree that because the sheriff is willing to add your instructor he obviously just wants the people in his county who get permits to have had first rate instruction. I also think that your instructor getting approved would be a good thing. I recognize that is not going to happen since you can't get in touch with him. I guess there is always the possibility that the sheriff would not add him to the list anyway. So as much as you hate too it looks like your only solution is to take the class with an instructor the sheriff approves. I think that I would find an instructor and ask him if he is teaching a more advanced class and if so check with the sheriff to determine if he would accept the advanced class as meeting the requirements for the permit. If he will then take the advanced class. That way you are not spending money to take the same class over again.

Good luck.
 
#27 ·
I know it's tough having to spend money again and that it seems unfair, but I'm not sure this is all a bad thing. It may prove beneficial to re-take the course just to brush up on all applicable laws. Heck, you could live in Kansas where we're required to take a course just to renew our license. Since Kansas' law just went into effect Jan. of '07 and the licenses are good for 4 years, I'm not sure if the AG's office has decided what all will be entailed in the renewal course, but it is a requirement built into the original law.

Hoss
 
#29 ·
Seems to me that the Missouri Sheriff just wants to see if the Maine course is similar to the Missouri course. I doubt that there is any graft involved. State requirements vary greatly from one state to the other. SC mandates 8 hour course and shooting proficiency. Other states have little or none. Seems par for the course to me.
 
#34 ·
I can't possibly be the only one on here that carries a nonresident permit.
You are not. I carried on a Florida permit first, and then decided to get my Missouri permit. The reason I went with Florida first was that at the time, more states accepted it than the Missouri permit. At some point about a year and a half ago, several states stopped accepting Florida's permit if you were a non-resident, and I could carry in more states on the Missouri permit.

I will also add that when I took my class, it was specifically for the Missouri permit, however I was able to use the certificate of completion for my Florida permit.
 
#31 ·
Ben,

Post your question on this forum.
MissouriCarry.com :: Index

There's a few members from St. Louis that are very active with legislature and more knowledgeable on how to handle this situation than me. One thing to keep in mind, if you still try to maintain an out of state permit, there are some states that won't honor your CCW if your not a resident of that permits state. Kansas and Colorado come to mind. If you know the police department your instructor worked for, you may try to contact them and see if they could fax any info to the sheriff of the county your trying to apply in. Hope this helps.
 
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