What if BG has a vest?

This is a discussion on What if BG has a vest? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Shotgun Willie Good idea OD. I have actually seen that used for LEO sniper training in California for moving targets with a ...

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Thread: What if BG has a vest?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun Willie
    Good idea OD. I have actually seen that used for LEO sniper training in California for moving targets with a hostage. They use one or two balloons as hostages in one color and the BG as another color and the trainer would move around the course to simulate moving bodies. It gave the snipers a hard time to get the clean shot but it worked. The snipers loved it and said it gave them a different feel to their training that a stationary target couldn't give. I forgot all about that. Thanks for the idea.

    Thanks for the link Ex. I will have to join after I get my gun.
    There is a HUGE difference between a trained sniper using a rifle with a long sight radius and a civilian with a CCW and a short(er) handgun barrel! It's possible that the passage of the bullet near the balloon would cause it to burst without actually hitting it. Better to use a target and measure your shot pattern (if any). But don't get me wrong...it'd be fun as long as it wasn't my rov.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #17
    OD*
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    Just give it a try.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD
    Just give it a try.
    Love to, but I can't. So I'll carry on in the fashion I have been.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #19
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    Good point. It worth a shot if for nothing else then to have a little fun.

    I have two RC's. One i got for Christmas and the other was the exact same model that was returned to the store because it didnt work so I talked the store manager into selling it to me for ten bucks. It was a two hundred dollar RC. My dad made a simple repair and now I have a second. So the long and short of all this is that worst case scenario I turn one into spare parts and it only cost ten bucks.

    If I tie it on with about six feet of string that should give me about the right height for a head and if I still hit the RC then maybe I shouldn't be handling firearms.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun Willie
    If I tie it on with about six feet of string that should give me about the right height for a head and if I still hit the RC then maybe I shouldn't be handling firearms.
    Careful! Make sure your backstop is the right height. If you're at all shooting high, it might send a rd OVER the backstop. This is an exercise that is very range (distance) driven (lol). In that situation
    it's probably better to have it shorter, IMHO.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #21
    Member Array Shotgun Willie's Avatar
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    Hey, thanks for the warning. The place I shoot at is up the canyon from where I live and has ample height. It used to be a gravel quarry but they dug it all up and now my backstop is all filled over with clay. I've got about a fourty or fifty foot wall where they dug into the mountain.

    I don't want you thinking that I am a half wit with a gun. There are to many of those. Thanks again for the heads up. If I do try it I will be careful, scouts honor.
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  8. #22
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    Wink No halfwit's here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun Willie
    I don't want you thinking that I am a half wit with a gun. There are to many of those. Thanks again for the heads up. If I do try it I will be careful, scouts honor.
    Shotgun, I KNOW you're NOT a halfwit! First of all, you're here and second of all you came looking to learn. Halfwits don't act like that.

    The place where I shoot, the berm is only about 20-25 feet so we have to be real careful. And you know something? I find it's often the most experienced shooters that get kinda cocky and overconfident and forget about stuff like that. But experienced or not a shot over the berm will get you DQ'd off a range in IDPA real fast.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    I've been trying to find the IDPA club around here, but their website seems to be defunct.


    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    My IDPA club has a silouhette target mounted on wheels and attached to a rope. Buzzer sounds and a shooter designated will RUN to the rear pulling the target directly to the shooter, who must draw and engage two COM within 2 seconds. Most of the targets exhibit considerable POWDER BURNS. Glocks, Sigs and revolvers tend to do better. Care to guess why?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  10. #24
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier
    I've been trying to find the IDPA club around here, but their website seems to be defunct.
    Try asking the main organization if there might be a new club in your area. You might think about organizing one yourself. Heck, you're a LEADER, think about it. Approach IDPA and they'll help and get you certified as both a Chief Range Officer and a Safety Officer which also teaches you about the nuts and bolts of procedurals and scoring. They can help equip you. Anyway, it's a thought. If you're on base, you might be able to get the army to help you set this up. Great training, especially for the squishies and crunchies. I'll bet that if they're convinced it's safe they'd let you open a range on a weekend and "GO HOT."
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #25
    OD*
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    My apologies gentlemen, I wasn't very clear and was referring to the older taller antennae.

    After rereading the posts, I can see now why Ex would think shooting the rc itself would problematic, I should have paid closer attention.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  12. #26
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    Head Shots and Hip Girdle Shots

    My folks spend a lot of time on failure drills on the move. Heads shots are great if you make the shot. We work on hip girdle hits to immobilize the BG.

  13. #27
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    Any former military or Leo knows train 100% for all situations. Secondly, shoot, then move, he should not be in your face. Then if need be pull the knife. However, I highly doubt a citizen will be in a situation where it would get that personal, 2 com shots and he does not run or is surprised you are not sheep. I don't know....
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  14. #28
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    My Mozanbique is now slightly modified due to the increasing presence of body armour on the BG's. Since the slowest moving anatomical part in a bob and weave is the pelvis, I now use lower COM (pelvis area is usually beneath armor), Middle COM, and ,you guessed it, brain stem. The third shot ought to be easier after BG has lost mobility.
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  15. #29
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    I dont think there are too many people who can take 2 COM hits with a vest and not at least hesitate. If he does not go down with 2 COM hits, put one in the head or the pelvis area before he can recover. The head is not that hard a target at 7-10 yds. You can simulate this at any range that has targets that are moveable by cable or chains (Most indoor ranges). Have your buddy stand by the return switch while you practice double taps at COM at about 7-10 yards. When you dont expect it, have him hit the return switch after you double tap the target. Then while the target is moving toward you (and swayiing in the breeze) try for the head shot. If you are not expecting it, it can get the blood pounding. The first few times you try this, you will probably have powder burns on the target.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    That's what my training has been. If they're wearing obvious armor (military tactical stuff like IBAS) shoot for the pelvis. That translates, in a civilian situation, to transfering your POA to the pelvis if you suspect armor.

    It would also work for a crack head... even if he doesn't feel the pain, he'll still have reduced mobility with shattered hip joints.

    I've got an old PASGT fragmentation vest that I keep around for TSHTF scenarios, but after checking out the "Box O' Truth" website I might spring for a lightly used level II or II-A from bulletproofme.com... I wonder how effective wearing the level II under the PASGT would be? When I first got to Iraq this last time I wore a PASGT until they could get me an IBAS... so I wore my tanker spall vest under it, I figured any extra protection had to help. The spall vest is maybe equivelent to level I.



    Quote Originally Posted by Entry Red
    My folks spend a lot of time on failure drills on the move. Heads shots are great if you make the shot. We work on hip girdle hits to immobilize the BG.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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