What if BG has a vest?

This is a discussion on What if BG has a vest? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At my last agency qualification shoot, the instructor "modified" the FLETC course of fire by having us shoot two COM and one in the pelvic ...

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Thread: What if BG has a vest?

  1. #31
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    At my last agency qualification shoot, the instructor "modified" the FLETC course of fire by having us shoot two COM and one in the pelvic area three times.....that threw a couple of people off since we had always shot the third round in each of those strings of fire at the head....I'm glad we did something different for a change.
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  3. #32
    Member Array soflasmg's Avatar
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    That is why I carry a 1911 if I can't have a rifle with me.

    I can shoot more accurately with this gun.

    My training for handgun is aimed pair COM. Failure to stop, Cranio occular.

    Pelvic girdle will not necessarily take a man out of the fight. Cranio occular will.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soflasmg
    That is why I carry a 1911 if I can't have a rifle with me.

    I can shoot more accurately with this gun.

    My training for handgun is aimed pair COM. Failure to stop, Cranio occular.

    Pelvic girdle will not necessarily take a man out of the fight. Cranio occular will.
    True, but you have a larger target index, with your pelvic target. On someone wearing jeans, you'll see the crease from crotch to hip. The half-way-between-point will put you right over the femoral artery.... 4 rounds of .45 cal is pretty good odds on a traget of (average) .50" diameter.

  5. #34
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    A head tied to the body by a short length of neck limits motion of the head far more than the motion of of a ballon tied to anything.

    It is not likely that the BG's head will be bobbing, dodging, etc. but rather just keeping up with the body. And yep, it's a small target, but so is the pelvic area when his side is toward you and he's moving. We gotta have a little luck; I mean, in a gunfight how much can we really expect to go in our favor?

    I just recently read of an account of a soldier going down with a shot to the pelvic area, and from the ground, he killed his attacker.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    I'm not horrendously worried about the BG in armor. If it happens, I'll adapt quickly or die.

    I mean, he might be Superman too - or made of metal or god knows what else.

    Maybe he's a humanoid android from the year 3000. ;)
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  7. #36
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    Maybe he's a humanoid android from the year 3000. ;)
    Haha - if he was that far in future Robert - he'd have zapped us with a particle beam weapon before we knew squat!
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  8. #37
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    I can't help but think that BGs are going to use vests more and more.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    I disagree. Sometimes all you might have is a head shot, especially if the BG is behind hard cover or behind a hostage and if it's my loved one and I'm just a few feet away, I want to make sure I'm behind the trigger and the shot is good. I will take the shot and my wife knows it and wants it that way. We've discussed many if not all the scenarios. I would lose a lot of sleep if I trusted that shot to anybody else.
    From your post, it apears these situations remain static, or you believe the situation will be static.

    I think you will find them to be dynamic events.

    ie--you moving, opponent moving, hostage struggling, changing light conditions, low light, someone shooting in your direction, more than one bad guy, etc, etc, etc.

    I would look for different solutions that might help in dynamic situations.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  10. #39
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    I just recently read of an account of a soldier going down with a shot to the pelvic area, and from the ground, he killed his attacker.
    Head shot?

    Why bother? Aim for something bigger and easier to hit. Try aiming for the waist! Think about it, a head can turn, roll and duck all on its own even when the body is moving. A body doesn't move unless the hips move. The feet and do a lil dance but he has to shift his weight to move and for that....ne needs his hips! Without them, he isn't going anywhere. With a little luck, he will be less one short arm. What a shame THAT would be....lol

    Mike

  11. #40
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    Wink Down and OUT?

    Quote Originally Posted by LPguy
    Head shot?

    Why bother? Aim for something bigger and easier to hit. Try aiming for the waist! Think about it, a head can turn, roll and duck all on its own even when the body is moving. A body doesn't move unless the hips move. The feet and do a lil dance but he has to shift his weight to move and for that....ne needs his hips! Without them, he isn't going anywhere. With a little luck, he will be less one short arm. What a shame THAT would be....lolMike
    Ask Tanksoldier; or better yet I'll say the same thing he would being a former armor officer myself: What happens if you blow the treads off a tank? Answer: It stops. Is it incapacitated? Uh-uh. It has just become a 68 TON pillbox. Still fully capable of reaching out and killing thousands of meters away in a whispering moment.

    Sure, you can take out the ganglia that handle motor control in the pelvic girdle area, and you might get some amusement watching the BG pull himself across the floor and bleed. Right up until he rolls onto his side and puts a bullet into your chest. He's down....but not out.

    Whereas a shot into the forehead just turns out the lights instantly and for good.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    I can't help but think that BGs are going to use vests more and more.
    If I was a bad guy, I'd sure want one
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Sure, you can take out the ganglia that handle motor control in the pelvic girdle area...
    I love it when you talk anatomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Whereas a shot into the forehead just turns out the lights instantly and for good.
    I've stories of people getting shot in the head and still going. Where's the best spot for shot placement?
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team American
    If I was a bad guy, I'd sure want one
    From having spoken to a LOT of run of the mill felons as a parole officer, the BGs are into quick easy cash. They LIKE their comfort. If they think a situation may call for a vest they find easier prey. The real pros...the crews who specialize in armed robberies and stuff, they go for the vests...and so do the psychos.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #44
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    Exclamation Precision Shot Placement

    Quote Originally Posted by Q-ball
    I've stories of people getting shot in the head and still going. Where's the best spot for shot placement?
    Classic head shot placement is:

    #1 Between the eyes or forehead between the eyes (cranial Vault) A variation on this is thru an eyeball (cranio-ocular) But NEVER any lower on the head/face! Just PI$$ somebody off with a shattered jaw!

    **The exception is #2 below where the ultimate target is at the BACK of the head moving from the front and you'll need a round that wont' fragment or deviate course when it might hit teeth.

    #2 thru the mouth but STRAIGHT IN or angled slightly upward (BEST if mouth is open -- SAY AH!)

    #3 One centimeter beneath either earlobe and straight in

    #4 Right at the point where the skull meets the top of the spinal cord at that juncture, again a straight in shot.

    #3 & #4 are for SNIPER reference. I doubt anybody's ability to be so precise under stress with a handgun in a gunfight!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  16. #45
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    You are forgetting the energy generated from the bullet concentrated in a very tight point. It'd be like getting hit with a sledge hammer, breaking ribs ,sternum, can even bruse and stop your heart. A vest stops penatration, not impact. Even with the plates in the vest it's still quite a blow. A couple of double taps from my 45acp and the BG aint happy. Better yet from my 44mag.

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