This is a discussion on Just A Warning within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by morintp I completely disregarded the dealer, not realizing he/she would be the main target. I just assumed it was the person being ...
You could always fill out the 4473 and give a fake name such as "Strawman Jones" and checking the box saying you had renounced your citizenship.
Or, I think I'd handle it differently. Nod along to the questions from the UC, then step aside to have a little private chat. You : "No I don't wnat your money, I want something else" Him : " What ?" You : "I'd like your help on getting my FORM4 through the system, it seems to be stuck"
Wow,I didn't know that this simple event would bring about so many responses.I thought maybe it was a unique happening,not something that is going on all across the country or has happened in other places.All those agents need to go find themselves a honest job and stop messing with honest men.They are trying to make crooks out of all of us.sj
Last edited by sjones; March 23rd, 2008 at 05:30 PM.
I knew the pawnbroker well, I think he was an honest man. BUT there might have been more to it than met my eye. On face value, the BATF just slicked an otherwise honest man into a questionable deal - BUT, as I told him after it all hit the fan - I wouldn't even have sold my mom a gun knoing it was for someone else.
The Pawnbroker made a very unwise decision to try to help "a nice guy".
Just thought I'd relate this as even people who are supposedly astute and intelegent can have their better judgement clouded by a slick operator.
"There is no problem that cannot be solved through the proper use of high explosives"
G. Alan Foster
This reminds me of that video that was going around for awhile where the police (or ATF agents, whatever) were "purchasing" a gun from a guy at a gun show in MI (was it?).
They had a hidden camera and the "buyer" was saying, "Yeah, but I have a record, can my buddy buy the gun for me?"
The dealer said, "Yeah, but he has to fill out the paperwork and if anyone asks he's buying the gun for himself, okay?"
I couldn't help but cringe and think, "Oh boy, you are going to jail for a long time."
I don't mind the police/ATF/whoever/insert-initials-here doing that because it does keep the idiots who sell illegal guns accountable.
What's regrettable is that there are people who do this kind of crap in the first place, and that it gets plastered all over the news.
And no, I would NEVER, under any circumstance, buy a gun for someone I didn't know. Even for someone I did know, as a gift, I would just give them the money and tell them to do the paperwork and purchasing themselves.
OK, let's get real here. Use the tools you have at hand to make the deal legally.
I find a 'don't really need another 1911 but it looks great and what a buy' pistol for $500. An hour later (okay, why am I there an hour after spending my cash?) I find a nice holster for it and try it on. Nice looking lady walks up and says 'is that a gun or are you happy to see me?' She offers $650 for it. "I know she wants it." I stand to make a cool 30% markup in one day, and I bought it because it was such a great deal.
Hellooo!! I am at a gun show and about to pocket $150 profit! How hard would it be to ask her to join me at the background check table? No 4473, just her driver's license. "Hi Gorgeous, let me get the check?" 10 minutes later, she avoids a three-day wait and I go shopping for another gun with $645 in my pocket.
pardon the puns, it's been a happy Easter weekend
Last edited by FLSquirrelHunter; March 23rd, 2008 at 07:26 PM. Reason: yet another poor attempt at humor
Doesn't matter if they are undercover ATFs or not, I won't buy any weapons for anyone outside my immediate family.
Robert John Stewart, The Lost King of Scotland
I had a friend that got hassled by the BATF when he purchased a couple of guns at his personal table from a guy for a good price. He was not an FFL dealer but marked them up $25 and put them on the table. It was a BATF sting and they put him in a world of crap for a couple of years. If you don't have an FFL NEVER sell a gun for profit at a gun shot that you just purchased. They will bust you for dealing without a license.
Life member NRA since 1983
I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.
Last edited by KenInColo; March 23rd, 2008 at 09:18 PM. Reason: spelling
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
been to plenty of gun shows and never been approched or any events
posted early, so any purchues are from ffl dealer only and for myself.
my records have always been clean and green and i plan i keeping
it that way. took a trip to the bahamas a few years back and was
warned to beware of the talking bushes(leo trying to sell tourist drugs).
NO THANKS, same at some gun shows if i"m reading these posts right.
(SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
the world coming too"
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.
I used to own a gun shop. The first couple of years getting established were pretty lean, cash flow wise. One day, a middle aged guy and a young woman came into the shop, and after looking around, the guy asked to see a S&W M57 .41 Magnum I had in the showcase. He played with it for about 10 minutes and decided he would buy it.
I took out the 4473, and told him I needed his driver's license, then he said his lady friend would fill out the paperwork. I asked him why, and he said it was going to be her gun anyway. I should mention here that from the time they came in, she was a totally disinterested spectator, she never once looked at or handled the gun, or even talked to the guy about it.
So I said, sorry, I can't make this sale. He said OK, and they left.
I found out later that these two were a BATF sting team from the regional office, not part of the local BATF office.
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
I wonder if anyone ever reported this Gun Show guy to the local authorities? Might be mildly amusing.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
That was bad enought but a gentleman came into my shop and purchased 2 cheap pistols and told me he would be back in two weeks to buy 2 more. During the course of the week I saw him do the same thing in 6 other dealer's shops. As we lived on the border I assumed he was selling weapons into Mexico. I reported him to the BATF and I was asked "Have you actually seen him selling them in Mexico?" No. "Then I suggest you mind your own business and not report things you can't prove!" Turned out later he was working with BATF setting up dealers with the above straw purchases. I am still convinced that they covered for him so he would help them. Note, I said he was helping, not that he was an agent.
"Lots of bullets means lots of chances to make use of expert marksmanship skills" --- Gecko45
"Some people ask: shoot to maim, or shoot to kill? I say, empty the chamber and let the good Lord decide." - Deputy Garcia (Reno 911)