Just A Warning

This is a discussion on Just A Warning within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I stopped going to the gun shows many years ago, and decided if I ever do go, any transactions that occur (I am selling ...

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Thread: Just A Warning

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    OK, I stopped going to the gun shows many years ago, and decided if I ever do go, any transactions that occur (I am selling one of my guns either just purchased or getting rid of) that transaction will occur at the counter and the paperwork filled out.

    Now the question in my mind arises, purchasing a firearm and gifting it to a family member - I.E. my wife. Where does that fall?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    A firearm may be purchased as a GIFT, even Sarah Brady agrees on that since she purchased a rifle for her son . A gift is not a straw purchase where moneys or other valuables are exchanged for the gun . So get " momma " that gun post haste lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkhal View Post
    So now the dealer either hands back the purchase price and eats an expensive weapon or takes a chance on getting arrested.
    Aren't we all glad the ATF doesn't investigate pedophilia?

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    The shows I have been to locally normally have a half dozen or so scummy looking individuals (outside the entrance) hitting you up going in and coming out.

    Hey! I resent that......
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  6. #65
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    Here in Japan, despite all their other faults and the many ways they have a free hand to violate the rights Americans take for granted, that is one thing the Japanese police CANNOT do...they cannot break the law to "enforce" the law!! Wow...what a concept! The police acting like the goods guys..what heresay is this?!?!

    The police here cannot break or even pretend to break the law to make arrests. No buy-bust stings, no undercover drug deals as either buyer of seller...none of that B.S. The police have to, and *do* get their busts through solid, *ethical* police work, not by breaking the very laws they are supposed to uphold. This means ALL laws. The police won't even go over the painfully slow speed limit unless they are on a call. With the exception of the occasional screwball that all organizations have, the police here are generally ethical to a fault. The definition of *ethical* here DOES NOT include sending Officer Suzuki out into town with a buttload of dope to sell, or a buttload of cash to solicit the purchase of a buttload of dope. Nor does it mean pretending to be a Yakuza looking for someone to buy a gun for him...
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkhal View Post
    Many, Many years ago when I had an FFL the BATF agent would come to a small dealer without much inventory and get him to order an expensive semi-custom weapon and pay in advance. His paperwork would be in order and all would be fine until he came to pick up the weapon. He would have a guy with him and as you start to hand the weapon over he would tell you that the gun was actually for his "brother in law" who can't buy the weapon himself. So now the dealer either hands back the purchase price and eats an expensive weapon or takes a chance on getting arrested.
    That's absolutely ridiculous. I can almost understand some of the lowhanded crap they pull to 'enforce' gun laws, but screwing with somebody's business is way out of line.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    That's absolutely ridiculous. I can almost understand some of the lowhanded crap they pull to 'enforce' gun laws, but screwing with somebody's business is way out of line.
    Well its not just crap like that , take a look here

    Red's Trading Post

    and then here

    An Open Letter To US Marshal Judicial Security Inspector David A. Meyer

    There is a long drawn out story covered between several blogs , reds site , jpfo ect.. but reds own blog will give you the " gist " of it , and the jpfo alert will show how far the intimidation can go .

    The blog " War on Guns " has extensive coverage but i wont link it because IMHO the owner David Codrea is pretty rabidly anti LE . I may be mistaken on his opinion but the fact he never seems to post a blog post complimentary to LE seems to speak for its self . You can google it if you want to go there and read.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array fernset's Avatar
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    On this note, say you are offered an extravagant amount to go in and buy a gun for someone, would you be arrested upon receiveng the money or producing the firearm??

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    <<...snip...>>

    How 'bout this for a hypothetical scenario:

    An attractive female (unknown to you she's a BATFE agent), w/a black eye or other visible bruises, approaches you w/a story about her old man beating her up all the time. She begs & pleads with you to buy a gun for her. She just has to have this gun now b/c after the last beating, she knows that the next time he's gonna kill her.

    To make it look even better, she says that she can only afford the gun and not any 'commission' to you but she just has to have a gun by tonight, before her husband gets back.
    I haven't read anyone else's posts in reply to this, but I suppose at most I would escort her to one of the nearby LEOs at the show and put the issue in their hands.

    Take care,

    nasm
    Last edited by nasm; March 24th, 2008 at 03:25 PM. Reason: To be more specific

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I personally would never buy a firearm for somebody i have never met before in my life or know personally enough to know they can legally own a firearm.By the same token I will not sell a firearm to somebody who cannot buy one legally,and may require you to go thru my dealer to complete the transaction.I know some people gripe about government paper trails etc. but If a gun is involved in a crime i don't want my name on the last 4473.
    As far as lady in distress if she can legally own a gun she don't need a 3rd party to buy it,I would suggest she pack and run to the nearest woman's shelter

  12. #71
    Member Array taggart's Avatar
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    What I buy is (and will be) MINE! Taggart doesn't share well with the other kids...
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  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    You guys are forgeting about the second half of the deal; The dealer. You being the "strawman" are not the main target, its the dealer.

    The UC agent will go with you to the dealers table to make the purchase. During that time, he will make it clear in the converstation whats going on. The dealer is supposed to be wise enough to figure things out, and know the rules of the game. They are not there to bust you and me who may or may not know any better.

    Dont get me wrong, that would still be illegal and you will get in trouble over it, but your not the main target. You have plenty of chances to back out and warnings. You have to fill out the 4473 and sign & swear you are the buyer etc. Its not a simple transaction.
    This part doesn't make sense to me...

    You agreed to purchase the gun, and are starting to fill out the paperwork...that's pretty much agreement to purchase the firearm for someone else.

    Is it not the same as the prostitution stings you see on TV all the time? they get you to verbally agree to pay $20 for a quick thrill, and then you're arrested...

    Your analogy is like...agreeing to pay $20 for some fun, and then actually having the fun, but then when the fun is done you get arrested....don't see that happening :)

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I believe that what six is referring to is that it is likely the " shill , scumbag , ci, or pick your description ) would likely either accompany you to the dealer , and make it plain, or have already been denied by the dealer , but in any case make it " overt " that they were the actual buyer . You would then face a felony for buying the gun , the dealer would face a felony + loss of business , and all stock for selling it ( remember the forfiture laws and how they have traditionally ben applied to seize assetts ) . Also take note that BATFE just let specs for bids for leatherman style tools engraved with allways thing forfeiture

    ( here is the bid solicitation 51--Leatherman Micra **Reposted with engraving information** )
    here is a page with some info BATF Orders Leatherman Tools Engraved With: Always Think Forfeiture! - Forums powered by Reason and Principle

    and it can further be found on many gunboards . Now with that in mind remember that seizure occurs before conviction , and in fact last i knew was not tied to conviction . Seizure is a civil process and as such is subject to much less proof than a criminal conviction .

    Any questions now ?? LOL
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellman View Post
    This part doesn't make sense to me...

    You agreed to purchase the gun, and are starting to fill out the paperwork...that's pretty much agreement to purchase the firearm for someone else.

    Is it not the same as the prostitution stings you see on TV all the time? they get you to verbally agree to pay $20 for a quick thrill, and then you're arrested...

    Your analogy is like...agreeing to pay $20 for some fun, and then actually having the fun, but then when the fun is done you get arrested....don't see that happening :)
    It makes perfect sense if you think it through from the standpoint of getting a sure conviction rather than somebody just running their pie hole. This way, you have the verbal agreement, paperwork, the exchange and a solid case.
    The defendant cant say he didnt know (not that it matters)... he had ample time to backout, read forms, signed papers as did the dealer.
    The prostitution stings are a completly different animal... you cant exactly seal the deal there. BTW, I happen to be doing one of those this week. Yuck.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  16. #75
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    I've been going to gun shows all my life (and that's a lot of them) in fact I don't remember the first gun show that I ever attended. I've never been asked to buy a gun for someone (maybe I look too squared away). I wouldn't buy one for someone else, but it is interesting to hear about this.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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