For those with a Florida permit
This is a discussion on For those with a Florida permit within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We have decided to move to Miami-Fort Lauderdale Area at the end of the year..I therefore have several questions I hope you would take the ...
March 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM
For those with a Florida permit
We have decided to move to Miami-Fort Lauderdale Area at the end of the year..I therefore have several questions I hope you would take the time to respond to. We will spend our summer there to check out the area but before that;
Please tell me about your state. What do I need to be aware off?
What can you do and what can you not do. Is the a gap between what the law says, and how things are actually done and handled?
What rights do you have to defend your self in public or in your home?
Is there episodes were you have been refused access to banks,stores or other public places? The crime in Miami seem to be high, do you feel comfy with leaving your weapon in the car?
Any story about Miami would be highly appreciated!
March 23rd, 2008 11:12 AM
getting a CCW is fairly simple. If your a vet and have your DD-214 that meets the training requirement. If not a class will suffice. Initital cost is $117 plus prints, and photos and class.
Florida has both the "Stand your ground law" and the "Castle Docterine".
Postings in the front of retail establishments really mean nothing. If you're found out carrying and asked to leave , just leave.
The ususal prohibitions of public building applies.
I'm on the west coast and the LEO's here are really good about CCWing. Never had a problem.
Join this board for a lot more info: Florida Shooters Network Home
Florida is a whole different world from Cali. We swap guns in parking lots.
Gun control is hitting what you aim at
March 23rd, 2008 11:39 AM
Florida allows concealed carry anywhere except schools, federal buildings, courthouses and inside of bars. Restaurants that serve alcohol do not count as bars unless they make more than 51% of their profit from alcohol sales. You also are not supposed to carry if you are in a restaurant sitting AT THE BAR where alcohol is served. Anywhere else is a matter of whether or not you see a posted sign and whether or not you choose to carry.
Florida allows open carry while on a hunting, fishing, camping or hiking trip and coming to and from such area of activity. This also includes gun ranges and training sites. On personal property you can carry concealed or open.
Recently, Florida began to allow concealed carry in its state/national forests.
Florida is a Must Issue state and therefore must issue the CHL if you meet the requirements.
As mentioned before, Florida also has the "No duty to retreat" which is part of the "Castle Doctrine" that also, by the way, extends to motor vehicles as your "Castle".
March 23rd, 2008 11:56 AM
Get this book and read it:
Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership (Sixth Ed.)
by Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq.
It's an EXCELLENT source of information (and a very good read too) on Florida gun laws, concealed carry, etc. You can usually find it at many Florida gun shops, or you can buy it on-line at http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com
March 23rd, 2008 01:28 PM
Just where in the law is this part?
Originally Posted by Tally XD
51% ????...has nothing to do with FL law...just can't carry in A BAR...or the bar portion of a restaurant...
Also, signs...I'm not sure what sign(s) you are referring to...they mean nothing in FL...
The Castle Doctrine goes beyond home and car...it's ANYWHERE you have a legal right to be...
Stay armed...enjoy FL...stay safe!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
March 23rd, 2008 01:55 PM
Yep. What retsupt99 said.....
Originally Posted by retsupt99
One of the most carry friendly states there is. Not just limited to firearms either. With your permit, there's not much that you can't carry, should you choose.
March 23rd, 2008 01:58 PM
1943 - 2009
And, of course, bookmark this web site, if you have not already done so:
Concealed Weapons or Firearm Program - Division of Licensing, DOACS
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
March 23rd, 2008 05:01 PM
Are you sure about the Miami area(DADE co.)? IMO you would be better off more towards FT LAUDERDALE . The crime is pretty bad in Miami you definately need a CCW living there .
March 23rd, 2008 05:17 PM
Personally, I would avoid the Miami-Dade area.
I have done my time there.
Crime can be bad. Traffic worse. How is your Spanish?
Some areas are almost totally Spanish-speaking.
The further north you can go, the better the traffic.
West Palm Beach housing prices may be more than Miami.
Come on up to Brevard County. Traffic is pretty good, prices not bad.
OH, and what RetSupt said (Hi, Ken).
No CCW in the bar. Restaurant is fine. Can even have a drink.
Just don't go into the bar.
Get Gutmacher's Florida Firearms Law.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
March 23rd, 2008 06:40 PM
I am not a lawyer and no longer acting as a LEO.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Careful 99, Castle Doctrine does not apply outside your home (incl motel room or a tent), vehicle, or place of business. "Stand Your Ground" law removed the duty to retreat from anywhere we have a right to be, but didn't change the definition of our 'castles.'
Here's the difference: I can legally assume that anyone entering my 'castle' without permission is a lethal threat. Kind of "Shoot first, ask questions later." I don't need to see a weapon or hear a word. That rule obviously doesn't apply everywhere we have a legal right to be. If someone walks into my hotel room unannounced, I can shoot them. If someone walks into Wally World unannounced, I can't.
Anywhere we have a legal right to be, we have the right to meet force with force and no duty to retreat (to our castle). That said, it is generally better to leave the argument than to let it escalate to lethal force.
Before Stand Your Ground, if someone drew a gun and pointed it at us in Wally World, we were required to try to get away. Further, we could have been jailed for shooting back instead of running away. That was just plain stupid, so the State Attorney rarely enforced it and the legislature changed the law so it no longer applies. Now if someone points a knife at me, I have the option to run or to shoot. The difference is in whether or not I see the threat as lethal and immediate. If not lethal or not immediate, I am not legally allowed to draw or to shoot, but I am allowed to "Stand my ground." If the idiot comes toward me with the knife, I get to decide when to defend myself.
We also have (unchanged from the original law) the right, but no duty, to apply lethal force to prevent the commission of a violent felony. In other words, if the gal in front of me in line at the c-store points a gun at the cashier, I have multiple legal options: exit immediately, shoot the perp immediately without warning, or stand there and wait to see what happens next. If the cashier hands her the drawer and the robber moves toward the door without pointing the gun at me, I must not fire because to do so no longer 'prevents' the robbery. In other words, once the crime has 'gone down,' there is nothing I can do but call 911 as I watch the felon get away. I could use non-lethal force to prevent escape, but using non-lethal force to stop an armed felon could be fatally stupid.
Do's and Don'ts of Florida lethal force:
Rule 1. Do use force to defend yourself
Rule 2. Don't play cop
We like tourists legally carrying guns in Florida. We like them so much that we will (for same fee as a resident) even mail you a concealed carry license if you meet our requirements but don't live here. If you decide to move here, just send in a change of address.
Last edited by FLSquirrelHunter; March 23rd, 2008 at 06:53 PM.
Reason: last para added, and IANAL
March 23rd, 2008 09:43 PM
I would go North of Miami if at all possible. The crime rate there is unreal. I have relatives in Florida (Brevard Co) & would recommend that area or slightly south of there. The one trip me & my uncle made to Miami, the hotel clerk (major chain) stole my credit card # & tried to charge something a month later. Luckily my CC company stopped it before it happened. What we noticed about Miami - if you're rich it's probably a decent place, if not forget it. Also, BAD traffic, parking sucked. I will never go back to Miami.
EDITED TO ADD: When you get your CCW permit, do the electronic fingerprints, much quicker getting your license that way.
March 23rd, 2008 10:03 PM
Any restaurant that makes more than 51% of its profits from alcohol sales BECOMES a bar. Even the local pool hall I used to frequent is considered a BAR because of its alcohol sales profits. Other restaurants that serve alcohol that are not considered a bar make most of their profits from food sales.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
The signs I refer to are the signs posted at some businesses that say "No firearms allowed/No weapons on premises" type signs that do exist. I have seen them. As I said, those signs only mean you arent supposed to carry there by owner request, but there is no law preventing it. Just your choice whether to obey them or not.
The Castle Doctrine only protects you in certain places. No Duty to Retreat protects you further, but only if you are legally licensed to concealed carry. If you use your weapon for protection in a PUBLIC PLACE and you are NOT a CHL holder, you are not protected by either law.
March 23rd, 2008 10:18 PM
Again, IANAL but here is the statute:
Originally Posted by Tally XD
"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
That has nothing to do with public place or license. If I am hunting squirrel at Guana River and somebody starts hunting me, my non-CCW hunting buddy would be perfectly legal to snipe my threat in that park.
March 23rd, 2008 10:27 PM
FL CWL doesn't authorize me to use force, and doesn't limit my choice of options. All it does is recognize my RKBA and allow me to carry lethal weapons under concealment in most places.
Our CCW classes teach use of force and firearms handling, but the FL CWL doesn't change my use of force or specify that me weapon be a firearm.
Daniella: Moving from the PRC to FL will set you free of useless gun laws and burdensome income taxes. Inland is better than coastal unless you just gotta surf every day. (We have no real waves, anyway.) Just one thing, please bring water. The lack of 'canes these last couple of years seems to have left us a bit dry south of Daytona.
March 23rd, 2008 10:41 PM
Still, if you are illegally carrying a concealed weapon on your person in a public place, YOU ARE engaged in illegal activity. You certainly still have the right to protect yourself using force if necessary, even deadly force, but you already were comitting a felony before hand. If you happen to be on your own property or the private property of someone elses, you are not IN A PUBLIC place, therefore, illegal activties do not apply regardless of CHL status.
Your "private property" is, through the Castle Doctrine, extended to your vehicle (only while you are inside it), to your uncles private property, your place of work or to a motel room in which you happen to be staying in at the time. If you were to be on a hunting trip, you wouldnt need a CHL to have a sidearm on you. You could carry it openly, legally, and would also be legally protected to use it for self defense. However, if you do not hold a CHL, you would not legally be right to have that sidearm concealed while hunting.
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