CCW question from MO.

This is a discussion on CCW question from MO. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll try to ask this question as clearly as possible. I am finding a few places around town that have a no ccw sign posted ...

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Thread: CCW question from MO.

  1. #1
    V8 [OP]
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    CCW question from MO.

    I'll try to ask this question as clearly as possible.
    I am finding a few places around town that have a no ccw sign posted either in their driveway or parking lot. First question is what about in my car? I know that it's a bad idea to leave a gun in your car that's not what I want to be lectured about. I was needing to know if I would be violating the law if a gun is in my car and I drive through the parking lot.

    Part two to the question. One location that has this sign is a strip mall where all the stores are entered from the outside. The parking lot is very large with several entrances. So far I have only found one of the entrances to have this sign. I know for a fact that not all of them have the sign posted. The other twist is that I have yet to see any of the stores to post the anti ccw sign. How can this be? I can't imagine that this could be considered properly posted and would hold up in court. What do you think?

    For anyone near the KC MO area this is located on the north side of 39th st across from Independence center.

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    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    If the "no CCW" sign is only on one entrance, I wonder if it was placed by the property owner or some crank. Call the property owner/manager.

    If I travel through a state that does not honor my permits, I can have my weapon locked into a travel safe in my trunk or the back of my van/SUV.
    Howard
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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    As far as leaving a gun in your car; Cut the odds if possible
    Do you somehow tell people that you may have a gun in your car? NRA stickers, stickers that tell people you are pro-gun, stickers that say this car protected by Smith and Wession, etc. Always fly under everyones radar.
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    signs don't mean much in MO

    Signs in the parking lots don't mean anything. I don't pay any attention to signs at malls either. Unless it is a school, cop shop, or church or court house, I pretty well don't pay attention to it. All they can do is ask me to leave.


    steve

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    I am finding a few places around town that have a no ccw sign posted either in their driveway or parking lot...I was needing to know if I would be violating the law if a gun is in my car and I drive through the parking lot.
    I can't find the web reference I have used before, but I remember printing it off last year after the law changed. According to what I read last year, one may keep a concealed gun in their car and drive into any parking lot that is accessible to the general public. That means if there is no controlled access like a swipe card or a guard, the law says you can carry in your car there, regardless of what any sign says.

    In fact, the law goes further: one may carry concealed while dropping a child off at school, as long as the carrier does not exit the car. I researched this fully and was surprised when I found I could legally drop my daughter off at her school while I was carrying. I wish I could find the reference to share with you, but so far I have been unsuccessful in my search.

    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    Part two to the question. One location that has this sign is a strip mall where all the stores are entered from the outside. The parking lot is very large with several entrances. So far I have only found one of the entrances to have this sign. I know for a fact that not all of them have the sign posted. The other twist is that I have yet to see any of the stores to post the anti ccw sign.
    If the stores are not posted, there is no prohibition to carrying concealed in the stores. If the parking lot is posted but is accessible to the general public, the signs only mean someone would rather you not carry there. The signs are not supported by Missouri law.

    I encourage you to continue searching in order to verify this information. If I find the legal reference, I'll pass it on to you.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    In my opinion----use your best judgment. What if you are sort of lost, in a new town, you took the wrong turn and in your state it's illegal to have a weapon within 300 yards of a public school---you're driving down the street, and come upon the crosswalk for a school with children crossing in front of you. What are you gonna do? Throw your weapon out the window? Give it to the mailman and say "meet me on the other side"? Of course not! You know the strip mall, and the posting, and where it is and where it's not. Is anyone going to check you? Are there metal detectors? Can you use an alternate entrance and claim innocence----sure you could. You are the one to live with your own decisions. Your car? That's your own property--even if it isn't totally paid for. Maybe the 'no concealed weapons' sign postings require obtaining a permit from the city before posting? Maybe the permit wasn't obtained. Maybe some collector took the other ones. Who really knows? There's just too much red tape everywhere you look. Maybe I haven't answered your question----maybe you didn't post any real questions? Question is---would you boycott any place that had posted 'no weapons'? I would-----unless it's Wal Mart of course.

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    Member Array wyldman's Avatar
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    In Missouri you can have your firearm in your car at any location even Goverment buildings, cops shop or chruch. No premit required.
    Quote from MO. CCW regs Section 571.107.1 Sub section1-17
    "Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises"
    Even if there is a no concealed carry sign on the store window you can still carry you firearm so long as you have a permit, subsection 571.1.121 "it shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial or removal from the premises".

    If you carry in a no carry location and they ask you to leave, LEAVE otherwise you risk fines and losing your right to carry.
    as for storing it in the car a center of mass safe would be in order or some other type of security device.
    Still the best advice, conceal and don't tell 99% of the time no one will ever know.
    Now Kansas is different and I don't know all the codes there but if you do carry in a no carry location in KS. you will be subject fines and arrest if caught.

    I know strip center you are talking about my wife likes to go to Kolh's there the only sign in MO that is Offical must 14X11 with 1" letters that state "no concealed firearms allowed" but like the regs reads it not a criminal act to carry in these locations.
    And to answer your next question YES I will be carrying in these location as well.

    WYLDMAN
    Last edited by wyldman; March 24th, 2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman View Post
    In Missouri you can have your firearm in your car at any location even Goverment buildings, cops shop or chruch. No premit required.
    Quote from MO. CCW regs Section 571.107.1 Sub section1-17
    "Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises"
    Even if there is a no concealed carry sign on the store window you can still carry you firearm so long as you have a permit, subsection 571.1.121 "it shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial or removal from the premises".
    Thanks, wyldman! Here's the link for the entire chapter:
    RSMO-Chapter 571

    This is the part I think you are most interested in, V8:
    Section 571-107 Endorsement does not authorize conceale
    See (15) for info on parking lots of posted businesses.

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Section 571-107 Endorsement does not authorize conceale

    Okay, I'm brushing up on the law in Missouri, and it's better than I remember. Pay special attention to subsection 2, which says:

    2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a** concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises.

    Thank you to the legislators in Jefferson City for allowing us to defend ourselves.

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    Member Array wyldman's Avatar
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    Thanks Grady section 15 does cover parking lots and allows employers, or lessee to prohibit employees or others from carrying on the property.
    My company is this way I can not carry but our customers can I also can not have a firearm in my company truck so I carry a taser on company time.
    It also state the same as the other 16 subsections that as long as it stays in the car it shall not be criminal offence.
    Still the same "Don't show don't tell" most they can do is ask you to leave, if this ever happens just be sure to let the retailer know your money is leaving with you and may never come back and add "that goes for wife's money too".

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman View Post
    Thanks Grady section 15 does cover parking lots and allows employers, or lessee to prohibit employees or others from carrying on the property.
    My company is this way I can not carry but our customers can I also can not have a firearm in my company truck so I carry a taser on company time.
    It also state the same as the other 16 subsections that as long as it stays in the car it shall not be criminal offence.
    Still the same "Don't show don't tell" most they can do is ask you to leave, if this ever happens just be sure to let the retailer know your money is leaving with you and may never come back and add "that goes for wife's money too".

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    V8 I have a safe a anti pry safe bolted down in the trunk of my car in case I have to go to any gov. buildings. You are safe with your weapon in your car. But V8 I have a question for you. Why would you shop at places that have anti weapon signs posted? There are so many other stores that support you carring your weapon therefore deserve your money. Every time you spend your money at an anti store that sign will stay up a little longer. It will only come down when they start losing income. I know this sign was in the parking lot so stop using any of those stores and let the tentants complain to the landlord. I know this might be an inconvience but in the long run it will pay off.

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    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    Here is a link to a Missouri Web site that has a "No Carry - No Cash" template you can download and print out business card size cards to leave with owner/managers of stores/businesses that are posted.

    Tim Oliver's LEARN TO CARRY - Missouri Concealed-Carry Courses, MO CCW Permit Info, News

    Scroll down to about the middle of the page for the card. Also a good site for Missouri CCW issues.

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